Makes me mad

[marauder_77868]

Re: Makes me mad

By the way, dlocke, as I answered, promptly, every single question you posed to me and you have yet to answer mine....let me ask again:
Can you say that George Bush is your President and, if not, please tell us who is?
Come on...let's hear it.

[Delock]

Re: Makes me mad

who the hell is Dlocke?

It might have been a swipe at your stellar spelling and grammatical skills....just a guess though.

Oh and we want to throw stones...

[Delock]

Re: Makes me mad

By the way, dlocke, as I answered, promptly, every single question you posed to me and you have yet to answer mine....let me ask again:
Can you say that George Bush is your President and, if not, please tell us who is?
Come on...let's hear it.

George W Bush is the president of the the United States.

[marauder_77868]

Re: Makes me mad

That's right....and as a citizen, he's your President too...and as such deserves more respect than you've shown. Or perhaps you really do believe he's a mass murderer? I'm trying to give you a chance to redeem yourself in the eyes of many. You see....you can't say you support the troops and call their commander-in-chief an unstable mass murderer, even if that's what you believe. Those two actions are mutually exclusive. You have the right to free speech...paid for by many of those with the ideals and morals you seem to despise....but just because you have the right to say something doesn't make it right. Like I said before...words mean things. And when you say the things you've said about our President, your stated support of the troops just seems like so much liberal lip service. Many liberals hate the military and I'm not necessarily including you in those. The military votes around 80% Republican as I recall, so I can understand. I feel like quite a few liberals give this "I support our troops" lip service. And well they should. Because they know that if they spoke their true minds they would be condemned for what they really are. Many people have read your comments by now. Are you in such a state of denial of reality that you don't recognize that you've said things that are very offensive to most Americans? Your one of those who won't "get it" until the knife is pressed to your throat. Your hatred of President Bush and the Republicans is so intense that you can't recognize the true threats to this country and our way of life. I can only hope that this thread has opened a few eyes. Your hatred has created quite a few Republican votes on here, I feel, and for that I thank you. Please continue on if you'd like. America is not the bad guy in the world. We ARE the shining city on the hill. For all your criticisms, you have yet to offer a better alternative. For those of you who love our country as I do...please recognize that his attitude is a symptom of one of the things that really IS wrong with this country. When we begin to see America as the enemy...we've lost.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Re: Makes me mad

Fine, just know... we won't turn you away like Dlocke and you will always be an honorary geek

I edited my post with the ribbon :(

who the hell is Dlocke?

Sorry, typo D. It was getting late  

[Nickintex]

Re: Makes me mad

By the way, dlocke, as I answered, promptly, every single question you posed to me and you have yet to answer mine....let me ask again:
Can you say that George Bush is your President and, if not, please tell us who is?
Come on...let's hear it.

George W Bush is the president of the the United States.

I did not vote for him either.  
The day I vote Republican is the day I hang myself afterward! :hang:

[ImaGuyGeek]

Re: Makes me mad

I can only imagine the threads on election night  8O

[marauder_77868]

Re: Makes me mad

I did not vote for him either.

True. But if you're an American (and I know you are), then he's your President. That was the point I was making with that question. Just like President Clinton was my President when he was in office.

[wesleydnunder]

Re: Makes me mad

That's right....and as a citizen, he's your President too...and as such deserves more respect than you've shown. Or perhaps you really do believe he's a mass murderer? I'm trying to give you a chance to redeem yourself in the eyes of many. You see....you can't say you support the troops and call their commander-in-chief an unstable mass murderer, even if that's what you believe. Those two actions are mutually exclusive. You have the right to free speech...paid for by many of those with the ideals and morals you seem to despise....but just because you have the right to say something doesn't make it right. Like I said before...words mean things. And when you say the things you've said about our President, your stated support of the troops just seems like so much liberal lip service. Many liberals hate the military and I'm not necessarily including you in those. The military votes around 80% Republican as I recall, so I can understand. I feel like quite a few liberals give this "I support our troops" lip service. And well they should. Because they know that if they spoke their true minds they would be condemned for what they really are. Many people have read your comments by now. Are you in such a state of denial of reality that you don't recognize that you've said things that are very offensive to most Americans? Your one of those who won't "get it" until the knife is pressed to your throat. Your hatred of President Bush and the Republicans is so intense that you can't recognize the true threats to this country and our way of life. I can only hope that this thread has opened a few eyes. Your hatred has created quite a few Republican votes on here, I feel, and for that I thank you. Please continue on if you'd like. America is not the bad guy in the world. We ARE the shining city on the hill. For all your criticisms, you have yet to offer a better alternative. For those of you who love our country as I do...please recognize that his attitude is a symptom of one of the things that really IS wrong with this country. When we begin to see America as the enemy...we've lost.

Charles, I believe that a fundamental mistake that you and others like you make, is in calling the government America. It's not, we are. It begins, "We the people..." not "We the government..." The Bush administration will go down in history as one of the ten worst in American history. The former prosecutor in LA who prosecuted Charles Manson, fully intends to charge Bush with murder and prosecute him when he can no longer hide behind his title and office.

The whole us and them mentality in this country right now reminds me of the history of the Macarthy Red Scare. We so love our labels; liberal this, conservative that, leftist media. Then we get into conversations like the one we're having now in this thread that inevitably descend into personal attacks. Your whole "if-you-don't-think-like-us-you're-un-American" attitude is one that's been used to justify oppression, bigotry, prejudice and hatred throughout human history. Nationalism is a slippery slope, used by Hitler, Stalin and Hirohito. I find nothing ignoble about patriotism. I just believe it's possible to love your country and way of life without it being necessary for you to swallow everything an administration regurgitates.

If you're critical of the CIC you're not supporting the troops? Horsesh_t. Since when? Just because he's the boss doesn't mean he can't be a screw-up? When people thought Carter was a worthless president did that mean they were not supporting the troops? When everyone found out that Ken Lay was a crook, does that mean they weren't supporting the workers who lost everything when Enron went down? Your whole "I-define-your-level-of-patriotism-and-love-for-this-country" attitude is arrogance at its worst. Who set you up as the arbiter of anyone's pariotism? Where exactly were you standing when the trump sounded and the blinding light from heaven decided to enlighten you?

I think people like you have the potential to be very dangerous to a free society. The SS and Gestapo were full of people who thought the same way.

BTW, which branch of the service were you in again?

Mark

[Darbex]

Re: Makes me mad

Wesley you are preaching what you say you dont want Charles to do. I do not find anything were he uses personal attacks. But I find what your reference of Charles to the SS very offensive and just like the liberals that refer Bush to Hitler it is very reckless and not thoughtful of a good arguement to revert to that kind of attack

[marauder_77868]

Re: Makes me mad

On my way to work....but a quick reply...more to come later.
There is a difference between being critical and being destructive. He crosses the line. I'm talking about a pervading attitude that is destroying this country. The attitude that America is the one at fault. When one puts more faith and trust in the UN than in our nation we are in trouble. I questioned Clinton's actions many times....but I never once questioned his patriotism. Like I said....more to follow when I'm not at a stoplight.

[Darbex]

Re: Makes me mad

And Charles isnt referring to your dislike his policies as not supporting the troops what he is referring to is that if you think that Bush is a mass murderer and wants to go out and kill everything not America then by that reasoning then the troops that are working hard in many of their eyes to protect America are nothing more then the mass murderers that their commander is. That is what correct me if I am wrong is his issue with what was said.

[wesleydnunder]

Re: Makes me mad

Wesley you are preaching what you say you dont want Charles to do. I do not find anything were he uses personal attacks. But I find what your reference of Charles to the SS very offensive and just like the liberals that refer Bush to Hitler it is very reckless and not thoughtful of a good arguement to revert to that kind of attack

Do you remember the billboards that popped up along I 45 after we went into Iraq? They showed a picture of Bush with the caption, "Our Leader". They were taken down overnight when a pic of the billboard showed up on the internet next to a similar one from the 1940s. It had a picture of Hitler and the caption, "Der Fuhrer".

And I wasn't calling Charles names. I was trying to show a parallel between a pervasive attitude nowdays and similar thinking in the past. And if you find it offensive, it's because you choose to.

Mark

[wesleydnunder]

Re: Makes me mad

And Charles isnt referring to your dislike his policies as not supporting the troops what he is referring to is that if you think that Bush is a mass murderer and wants to go out and kill everything not America then by that reasoning then the troops that are working hard in many of their eyes to protect America are nothing more then the mass murderers that their commander is. That is what correct me if I am wrong is his issue with what was said.

I don't buy this arguement either. The troops didn't have any choice where they were sent. In a firefight, you shoot back at who is shooting at you. I don't believe Bush wants to kill everyone who's not American. That statement is rediculous on its face. Is he a mass murderer? That question will be answered by history; we still don't have all the data. If, however, he took us to war under false pretenses, in the process killing Americans and other nationalities, then he is by law and definition, a murderer.

Mark

[ImaGuyGeek]

Re: Makes me mad

And Charles isnt referring to your dislike his policies as not supporting the troops what he is referring to is that if you think that Bush is a mass murderer and wants to go out and kill everything not America then by that reasoning then the troops that are working hard in many of their eyes to protect America are nothing more then the mass murderers that their commander is. That is what correct me if I am wrong is his issue with what was said.

I don't buy this arguement either. The troops didn't have any choice where they were sent. In a firefight, you shoot back at who is shooting at you. I don't believe Bush wants to kill everyone who's not American. That statement is rediculous on its face. Is he a mass murderer? That question will be answered by history; we still don't have all the data. If, however, he took us to war under false pretenses, in the process killing Americans and other nationalities, then he is by law and definition, a murderer.

Mark

I've been trying to avoid this but I have to remind everyone that "Our President, George W. Bush" did not take us/US to war. He proposed we go to war and "Our Senate" made a majority vote for a Joint Resolution to use US Forces in Iraq. So with that fact in place, here is the list people to hold accountable.

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 2nd Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )
Vote Number: 237 Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Joint Resolution Passed
Measure Number: H.J.Res. 114
Measure Title: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Vote Counts: YEAs 77 NAYs 23

Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---77
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---23
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)