Salt water idea

[rage]

I completely disagree. A successful tank is one that doesn't kill everything in it. Very little maintenance or a lot of maintenance is just a choice. It has nothing to do with success. Because if that were the case, all tanks are failures because they are not rivers, lakes, oceans, etc.

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Strange arguments.

If you think minimal maintenance is not a criteria in saying a tank is successful then how do you like to keep a tank that requires 2 hours of maintenance a day? How about 4 hrs a day? Where is the line for you?

[Darbex]

Salt water idea

They are apples to oranges only in the fact that one is fresh and one is salt. But the overall concepts are the same. SW tanks are much easier to keep than discus.

[Darbex]

Salt water idea

The point is that more maintenance is not the determining factor of success or failure. It's whether you are able to keep alive healthy livestock.

[rage]

They are apples to oranges only in the fact that one is fresh and one is salt. But the overall concepts are the same. SW tanks are much easier to keep than discus.

Not that.
Discuss tank is not the same as Cichlid tank.

Keeping a Discuss with less maintenance > Keeping discuss tank with high maintenance.

Keeping a salt FOWLR tank with less maintenance > Keeping a salt FOWLR tank with high maintenance.
...

[rage]

The point is that more maintenance is not the determining factor of success or failure. It's whether you are able to keep alive healthy livestock.

It's one of the criterias.

Why would you want to do something that makes you so tired that causes you to get rid of the tank?

[Johnsbra123]

Any body interested in buying some of my coral?

[eklikewhoa]

From some maintenance to none? I got out of the hobby completely and this tank happened right before then.

There are many factors/reasons as to why, not all has to do with the tank itself but sometimes that's enough to be the reason.

For a person that keeps saying how a SINGLE instance isn't validating enough you are surely concentrating on the particulars.

[eklikewhoa]

Rage, once again I ask that you share some of your experience in this thread as well.

I see a lot of talk of how so and so's experience doesn't count since its just one persons experience or how it was a controlled experience but nothing of your own.

I agree its just talk to build the knowledge base but please do add to it to make it a positive thread and not just a waste of bandwidth.

[eklikewhoa]

I don't know why it has to be win and lose with you and eklikewhoa?
We just share experience. If you really want to count, try dozens and dozens of other salty websites and see how many people agree with you.

Who said it has to be about who wins or loses? I thought this was about sharing our experiences?

For your last statement... out of all those dozens and dozens of sites how many people are agreeing based on what they read on other sites? how many of them actually tried anything other than what you did with just adding a single damsel and letting it wreak havoc on their tankmates? So now how many of those sites will agree that they attempted what they read would not work and then did nothing other than to pawn off the single problem fish on another?

Here's what I DON'T agree with.

several hobbyist like yourself, would read what the internet says, but knowing that it says you will fail, will do exactly that... then fail. Then without attempting any other solution other than to agree and accept that failure you spread that experience. That to me is not speaking from experience perse but just validating one single possible outcome that, like you stated, doesn't need validation which has already been proven.

Now to the apples and oranges... Tropheus and petrochromis, when I first got into that realm of fish keeping the same applied. "keep no more than 14-15 fish in a 55g with 10x filtration", "Don't feed anything other than flakes or they will get bloat and don't feed too much". Now to look back on that what part of that is still true? Look back on all the old "sites" that preach this and how many of those followers continued to get the dreaded bloat?

[eklikewhoa]

Any body interested in buying some of my coral?

There's the B/S/T section for that, just like you can't go off topic and have discussion in the BST I think there's something about trying to sell outside of the B/S/T

[eklikewhoa]

Rage, I feel that a lot of your energy put into this thread is solely aimed towards discrediting anything posted instead of compiling experiences and ideas to increase the understandings of the dynamics.

I posted what I attempted that did not include the death of any fish nor me having to get rid of any fish due to aggression. Instead, this tank became the dumping grounds for those said fish.

The tear down of this tank did not include any of the reasons that are normally associated with damsels.

I think I've contributed what I can based on my own personal experience to this thread.

[mistahoo]

Re: Salt water idea

Strange arguments.

If you think minimal maintenance is not a criteria in saying a tank is successful then how do you like to keep a tank that requires 2 hours of maintenance a day? How about 4 hrs a day? Where is the line for you?

The point is that more maintenance is not the determining factor of success or failure. It's whether you are able to keep alive healthy livestock.

Thank you Darbex. I was starting to think I wasn't making any sense. That is what I consider "successful". If you really don't want any maintenance why even stay in the hobby? Either that or you can just keep a tank with water. Then you'd have no maintenance. Now will that still be successful? In your sense I guess so.

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[madehtsobi]

lol... everything needs maintenance.

[flipside]

Re: Salt water idea

:beer:

[BeefyG]

If we are going to argue what the definition of success is then why not argue the definition of maintenance. Some may see it as work and some may relish the time spent as it is an intimate time with the tank and when you are most directly working with it. It may be relaxing to some. I think the conclusion to be drawn from both sides is figure out what type of maintenance schedule you can and want to do then plan a tank around that. If you can and want to do 4 hours a day and you enjoy those 4 hours... go for it and call your happiness a measure of your success. If you can only spare an hour a week then plan a tank to that and enjoy your hour a week digging into it. You define the success. Not some measuring stick somebody else is holding.