Salt water idea

[eklikewhoa]

It's very hard to compare our tanks to open oceans.
In the wild, yellow tangs are seen to school. In our tanks, I don't see them do that. In tanks at City Pet where sometimes they have 10, 20 yellow tangs, each of them would just carve out a little space of its own.

In the ocean, if there are aggressive fish around, the less aggressive ones just go hide, there are zillions gallons of water and crevices for them to hide. Sometimes they might fight and kill each other and we would never know.

I couldn't have said it better than myself!!

So why are we trying to mimic that of the ocean?
Why are we reading all the information that is given to us about the species when observed in the wild?
Why would it be so wrong for someone to keep the species in a setting not appointed by some researcher when to begin with they are not in the same setting?

We try to adapt and provide for them the way we deem fit or for some, how some internet profile tells them to. Regardless of which way none would be nearly close to what they were taken from.

[rage]

I would have to agree that it has worked in many instances of fish that would appear to be very billigerent/nippy toward their own kind and even other tank mates. Your troph tank was a model for this and even most sites are now advising for a school of barbs (12+) to comntrol their aggressive/nippy behavior as it seems to allow them a natural feel and prevent the antisocial behavior solitary keeping causes. I am aware these are isolated instances and not everything will function with this mentality, but thinking outside the box does get unpredictable results. As an aside, do they maintain large schools in the wild? This would suggest that this approach might have more merit then solitary types.

It's very hard to compare our tanks to open oceans.
In the wild, yellow tangs are seen to school. In our tanks, I don't see them do that. In tanks at City Pet where sometimes they have 10, 20 yellow tangs, each of them would just carve out a little space of its own.

In the ocean, if there are aggressive fish around, the less aggressive ones just go hide, there are zillions gallons of water and crevices for them to hide. Sometimes they might fight and kill each other and we would never know.

[mnemenoi]

I would have to agree that it has worked in many instances of fish that would appear to be very billigerent/nippy toward their own kind and even other tank mates. Your troph tank was a model for this and even most sites are now advising for a school of barbs (12+) to comntrol their aggressive/nippy behavior as it seems to allow them a natural feel and prevent the antisocial behavior solitary keeping causes. I am aware these are isolated instances and not everything will function with this mentality, but thinking outside the box does get unpredictable results. As an aside, do they maintain large schools in the wild? This would suggest that this approach might have more merit then solitary types.

[nightster]

Sounds like cichlid style thinking, pack'em in tight and confuse'em lol. I don't see anything wrong with "going against the grain" if you can make something work that others don't want to try I say more power to you...

[eklikewhoa]

I still don't believe in putting a dozen damsels in a small tank. Spreading aggression only mean they fight a different fish at different time. It does not mean it's a good thing.

What I do like is when you talk more, there are more info there for people to understand. If these fish were rescued fish, it maybe an excuse, and you should have said so at the beginning so others don't go out and buy a 10G and a dozen damsels to start the hobby.
If I were to rescue them though, I would have given them a better situation rather a tight little place so they have to fight to survive.

Of course it makes a difference that I didnt pay for them but in the same sense I provided for them.

What you have mistaken is that there was very little aggression within the tank, yes they were packed a little tight in the tank but never did I see any illness, bullying or damaged fish. Always eager to eat and always moving around.

Maybe your definition of spreading aggression is to have all fish take a hit from the bully but what I meant was that the increase of inhabitants caused a state of confusion or perhaps a better setting for them that they did not feel the need?

I'm not saying not to go out and get a dozen damsels for a 10g cause if it works then why not?

never did I witness any two single damsels fight each other to validate what you are saying, it did however spread it where it was just a quick chase but never physical contact.

[rage]

No ones fighting just having some good debates.

I still don't believe in putting a dozen damsels in a small tank. Spreading aggression only mean they fight a different fish at different time. It does not mean it's a good thing.

What I do like is when you talk more, there are more info there for people to understand. If these fish were rescued fish, it maybe an excuse, and you should have said so at the beginning so others don't go out and buy a 10G and a dozen damsels to start the hobby.
If I were to rescue them though, I would have given them a better situation rather a tight little place so they have to fight to survive.

[eklikewhoa]

No ones fighting just having some good debates.

as for your marsh, find someone that is your friend, the whole purpose of that is to keep from having bad transactions and I'm sure anyone that isn't your friend would want you to smear their name if anything went askew.


Rage, would like to add that this 10g consisted of many adopted damsels that were being neglected due to experiences like yours. Many that were forced to the sump, on the way to the flusher or from people that didn't care for their well being due to their "aggression".

[Johnsbra123]

Can we stop the fight here. Can someone help me with marsh.com?

[eklikewhoa]

As stated previously.... the "experts" that you read about online only write about what worked for them, just like your case. Most of which are what worked "safely".

If two didn't work together then none will, so let's say they are aggressive and can't be kept in a tank for a long time.

Sound about right?

[eklikewhoa]

That was the point of this tank.

You kept two together and they harrassed each other. From my experience with hyper aggressive fish is to pack them in and disperse the aggression which in this case worked out perfectly.

Never a nipped fin or damaged scale, the group of damsels co-existed with one another with no problems in a 10g.

So, when you had two in a 75g they attacked each other as well as other fish to the point to ditched them.

I kept them in a 10g for about a year with them living almost peacefully.


Not suggesting anything other than my personal experience which if I'm not mistaken, when compared to yours, its more favorable.



I've noticed you like to quote my post or put me on the spot. I'm sorry if my personal experiences are so different from yours. I have these crazy visions and instead of just thinking about it, I actually try them. Most cases it doesn't work but some do.

[rage]

I don't have all the answers and I messed up from time to time but I have some honest answers if one would care to read what I have said over the years. The point of this forum is to share your experience, good, bad so hopefully someone else will not make the same mistakes.

For the case of damsels:
I only had 2 of them when I first started sometime ago in a 75G, with maybe 2,3 other fish. The damsels fought each other all the time and they harrased the other fish big time. I had them for a few months and got rid of them.
With little I know, I agree with others and the experts when they said damsels are mean and not good to be kept in a tank long term.

Now your turn. Are you suggesting keeping a dozen damsels in a 10G was a good experience?

[eklikewhoa]

What was so great about setting up a 10 G tank that you got tired of cleaning the detritus and feeding?
Did you not enjoy watching the fish chasing each other?

they didn't chase each other as much as most would think.

short burst and that was about it.


What was great about it?
I'll leave that for you to come up with, you seem to have all the answers and with an abundance of knowledge.

Please do not refrain from sharing the knowledge you have gathered from all your personal experience, we are all ears/eyes.

[rage]

yeah, mixed at home with water from the tap.



It lasted for about a year before I got tired of feeding them and cleaning the detritus out of the tank.


There's a lot of things that can be done if you set your mind to it and not be scared by what is posted on the internet by others that are also too scared to prove otherwise.

What was so great about setting up a 10 G tank that you got tired of cleaning the detritus and feeding?
Did you not enjoy watching the fish chasing each other?

[Johnsbra123]

Can some one help me by posting my list of coral on the sale thread of marsh? I don't want to pay 20$ just to sell this one pack of coral.

[eklikewhoa]

Is that ten gallon with tap water?????????

yeah, mixed at home with water from the tap.

What 's more important is whether the tank is sustainable.

It lasted for about a year before I got tired of feeding them and cleaning the detritus out of the tank.


There's a lot of things that can be done if you set your mind to it and not be scared by what is posted on the internet by others that are also too scared to prove otherwise.