URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

[Smokemeakipper]

I just came home today and found my fantail gold fish floating upside down.  After much cursing and mourning I decided to take him out of the tank.  As I got near him with my net he suddenly flips over and swims away.  He seems to be having trouble staying up right and seems to be fighting to breath.  I need to know if he is still savable or if I should prepare a proper naval funeral.

 What's wrong with my fish?  And can I do anything?

[guppymax]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Move the fish to fresh water. It sounds like a swim bladder disorder. Check your water quality.

max

[Smokemeakipper]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

How do you prevent swim bladder problems?

[Mzungu]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but don't goldfish have problems gulping down food at the surface, taking in air, and developing swim bladder problems? I remember talking to one woman who had kept this one particular goldfish for 8 years or so, and she adopted it because it had swim bladder problems. It was always a little sad to look at, but even though he was upside down most of the time, she hand fed him peas and such and he seemed to be doing well.

I'm pretty sure that once a fish has a problem like this, it's basically un-fixable (if it is the swim bladder).

I'll take a look at your other posts, but have you given any specifics regarding your tank? Like Max said, let us know the parameters of your particular water, as goldfish can compromise water quality in no time at all.

[armthehomeless]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

I had a large oranda that had swim bladder disease, and I fed him peas for a while. I had to actually take the "skin" off the peas, or at least puncture them  because the oranda only wanted the "meat" of the pea. I was told essentially the same thing Mzungu said. Mine got better though.

A good preventative for swim bladder in ornamental goldfish from what I have been told is to use a turkey baster to put the food in the water. That way the goldfish won't swallow air along with the food.

I'll be interested in what guppymax says to about the validity of this.

[Mzungu]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Along the same lines as the turkey baster idea, I've heard to always try to feed goldfish (if you're going the prepared foods way) sinking pellets in order to minimize the risk of them gulping air. And yes, I agree, definitely take the "skin" off the peas if you choose to try this. There's a thread that just started about feeding veggies to your fish, so if you're interested, check it out.

armthehomeless - It's great to hear yours got better!  

[guppymax]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

So what happened? There are a lot of good ideas in these posts and you could do a search and find them and some more here:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-16,SUNA:en&q=swim+bladder+gold+fish

My experience has been that the fish recover pretty quickly or not at all. I have seen some recover with just the change of water. There were no posts for six days. I hope your fish did not die, Smokemeakipper.

Its kind of a guessing game exactly what is wrong and what is going to work armthehomeless. When it comes to life and death I am only a man with too little information and knowledge trying to help at the risk of being wrong or stupid. Thank you for the help.

max

[Smokemeakipper]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Alas, Dirty has moved on to the big fish bowl in the sky.  Thanks for the help though.  Which brings me to two more concerns.  I don't know if I should post them somewhere else, but (1)  If a fish is obviously not doing too well, what is the most humane thing to do?  Should you let it die naturally in the tank or help it by ending its misery? Does a dieing fish release anything harmful to the healthy ones in the water? and (2)  Am I nuts or does anyone else name their fish?  Is this needless attachement, or normal fish loving behaviour?

[armthehomeless]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Sorry to hear about your loss. The euthenasia of fish is a judgement call. Everybody will slightly differently about this.  When it seems as though there is no hope, I end the life of my fish.  

As far as to whether a dying fish would be harmful to the healthy ones... well it definitely isn't beneficial. It could be harmful.  It depends why the fish is sick.  My opinion is to err on the safe side anput the fish in a isolation or "sick" tank.  Better to be too cautious than not cautiios enough. Once the fish is dead, you'll want to get it out of the tank(especially if there are other fish in there). I think it produces ammonia, which fish don't like!

There are fish of mine that I name too! I think Dirty is a great name for a goldfish. I have a third generation Jack Dempsey named "Killer III"

[guppymax]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

1. Even if it dies of old age it will break down into harmful chemicals. Hospital tanks are a good idea. If you leave the life and death part to the higher authority maybe you will learn something in the hospital tank. Posting your concerns with the higher authority is a good idea. It is your call.

2. Naming the fish sounds like you are having fun to me. That is what it is all about.

max

[PhishPhreek]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

I am not one to spend $20 + time & effort to save a $5 fish.   Therefore you will never see me treating a large tank.   I quaranteen new fish for at least 2 weeks before I introduce them to the others and I remove any sick fish as soon as I  see a problem.   By Placing them in a small isolation tank it allows me to medicate them for less.   And if their treatment is economically unfeasable,  I place them in a small container and let them swim in the freezer.   I've been told that it is painless.

I name my pets, I number my breeding stock.  When my kids were small and I was raising rabbits, I found it much easier to put  #17,25& 26 in the freezer and much harder to put flopsy on the dining table.

If mad cow disease is caused by adding beef byproducts to the cattle feed why are we not worried about "mad fish disease"?

[Ellen]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Some marine fish do secrete a poison when they die, but I've never heard that about freshwater fish. Of course, anything decomposing in your tank is going to wreak havok on your water, as Max pointed out.

I also put them in a small amount of water and stick them in the freezer if I feel they're not going to make a recovery. I don't know if they feel the pain or not, but frankly, I don't care that much. If the fish is bad enough that you feel putting it down is more humane than letting it die on its own, then if it feels pain, it must already be in pain.

I put them in as small an amount of water as I can. I also make sure that the water is *cold* before I do it, because I can't stand to see the critter trying frantically to get out when I stick it in the freezer. I leave them there for probably too long, at least 48 hours, because I want to make sure they're dead. (I don't want to think they're dead and then pitch them and then they slowly wake up and suffocate. If I wanted to do that I'd just pitch them alive.)

I have a little trick that I used when I had lots of little livebearers a few years ago. I took a disposable plastic cup and cut little rectangles out around the lip. I put the cup in the tank, and shut the lid on it, to hold it in place. When the cup is in the tank, there shouldn't be water exchange between the cup and the main tank. This will keep the sickly fish away from the others until you have time to deal with it. With the cup in the tank, it keeps the water temp. stable. Just fill it up with tank water and add a drop or two of Amquel and the sick fish. If I had to be gone all day (school, work, etc.) and a fish wasn't looking too good when I left, I would put it in the hospital cup. If you don't have a hospital tank set up and running and you don't have the time to do it in the morning, this is a fast and easy solution. I don't think this would work with bigger fish, especially if there are bigger fish in the tank, as they could probably tump the cup pretty easily if they felt like picking at it.

I say why not name the fish if you want to? Mine usually get a name if they stick out from the crowd, but at the moment, none of mine are named.

Ellen

[szidlon]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

Sorry to hear Dirty didn't make it   .

I don't name all of my fish, just the special ones.  I always have a Black Ghost and they always have a name, the same name.  My current one is Busy Fin (the fourth).  So, since I name fish,  it may or may not be considered crazy  

[HFBfounder]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

:crazy:          Just kidding, I like that emoticon. I have to use it anytime I get the chance.  :wink:

[Mzungu]

Re: URGENT, FISH DEATH MAY BE IMMINENT

I'm also sorry to hear about Dirty.

About the naming fish thing...I've never really had any "individual" fish, just one hand-me-down Betta (I promised to keep the name) who died a few years ago, and my one betta I have now. All the rest are in groups. And I've never been too creative when I did name my fish. So, my betta's name (the one I have now) was Mr. Betta. Like I said, never been creative about fish names. But one night I came home pretty late ( artyman: ) and when I saw my betta I said, "Well hello, Master Betta!" The name stuck.