150 Gallon Currently Malawi Tank

[imagirlgeek]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

How's the eye looking, Tim?  Better? Worse?  Same?

[armthehomeless]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

I'm not one to frequent test parameters, but...

Tank Conditions

pH: 8.0-8.2
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: <10ppm
Chlorine: 0 ppm
Hardness: 300ppm (divide by 17.9 if you want dH)

Water Changes: 30-50% weekly
Filtration: Wet/Dry with dual returns and Rena XP2 packed with ceramic media, biomax, carbon, zeolite, and sponges
Lighting: single 48" 40 watt bulb
Temperature: 78 degrees F

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

To tell you the truth......I mix my NLS with Dianichi.  3/5 NLs 1/5Dianichi veggie deluxe 1/5 veggie fx.

I am not a fanatic supporter just find it misleading in lack of better term when someone blames it on anything in particular without proper or any info on conditions in which the problem has occured.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Tim,

If possible can you post your tank water conditions, tap source condition, and filtration equipment on this 150 gallon aquarium?

Quoc,

Sometimes, the same people that are NLS haters can be grouped into the same people that are NLS fanatic supporters.  I am neither, I do use NLS as a pellet staple in all my fishes diets along with 5 to 1 mix of Aqurian Tropical Flake food and pure spirulina flake.

Geoff

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

girlgeek....I agree that finding what's common between the case will better help singling out the cause but from both threads which NLS was to blame the only thing that was mentioned was the fact that NLS was part of the diet, they were Ectodus and there is stringy poop.

Now if there was a breakdown of specific parameters, temps, filtration, circulation, maintenance regime, lighting intensity, lighting photo-period, feeding frequencies, water source used, additives, conditioners, buffering substrates, tankmates, tank layout, amount of food fed, hands being cleaned, scented stuff in the air, etc....and have them all different other then the fact that both Geoff and Tim feed NLS and they are both only having their Ectodus effected by it then we could boil it down to either Ectodus or NLS.

I feel you on the whole bloat thing....who really knows what causes it and all we can do is process of elimination. I don't wish it on anyone cause it sucks to lose such personable fish.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

I don't think that's what anyone is saying...except maybe Mike  

I think everyone is just looking at any commonalities between cases.  Lots of factors have been discussed in lots of threads.  I don't feed NLS and I've not had a case of Bloat (knock on wood), but I feel certain that one day I will have to deal with it, and I will be sure to post all the information about my feeding, water, tankmates, etc., and I'm sure there will be other theories at that time.  Bloat still remains a mystery to me, and I think it's interesting to find out what common threads there are when people do have those problems.  But that's just me.  :)

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

I guess there will be no discussion about it then.....NLS is the culprit of everyones ill fate with bloat.


ETA....the reply was posted before you edited your post Geoff....


... With the water parameter thing I think you and Tim live quite a ways from each other... and even if you lived closer there still could be variations in it all. I have been to Tims place and I think the area was settled quite a while back so the plumbing there could be different. I know when Charles had problems with NitrItes showing up in the tap water at FishRanchII/1800SeaMonkeys or whatever I went and tested the waters at my workplace which is almost across the street and there was no detectable signs of Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate.

Now comparing my water to some friends that live close by....probably less then 8mi....the parameters were also different...pH, GH and KH IMO were to the point were I would consider drip acclimating. Since I got this new little nifty TDS meter I have been playing with that as well, TDS has been on opposite scales of the chart where you would least expect it to be.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Tim said in his posts that the Ectodus had white stringy poop.  As far as the eye growth is concerned I'm not sure what that is I never seen anything like that.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the fish went thru a lot of stress to get here.  I am in no way saying that this is a NLS issue with Tropheus.  That is a completely different matter.  What I am talking about is the Ectodus.

Tim has Ectodus with Benthos, and I have Ectodus with PEtros, and he feeds the exact same food I feed, and I am only guessing that he keeps up the same water regime and chemistry as I do since we are in the same realative area.  The only think I might do idfferent than he, is that I bufffer to about 8.2-8.4 using Tanganyikan Salts from Seachem.  I have always done that.  

He also got the exact same fish batch as I did.  We have a lot in common that there could be found a common link or issue.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

There was also stringy poop in one of the pics.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Don't get me wrong guys....I am not trying to say anyone is wrong but I find it hard for someone to say that NLS is to blame when all Tim provided was what he fed them and a picture of an Ectodus with a swollen eye.

Just trying to have a healthy discussion and if you guys are seeing something I'm not or know something please do share.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Maybe.....Just maybe....It has to do with....


1. They were freshly caught from the lake, taken from what they call home
2. They barely had time to acclimate to living in a cage over in Africa
3. They were then caught again, bagged and put on a plane
4. They were dropped off at an airport in which they had to ride in the back of a trunk for a few more hours
5. They were then put back into cages in which they have never seen before and most likely water they have never been in before.
6. Shortly after all that they were then again bagged and took another drive for a few hours
7. Again put in new water, in a new cage and probably not suitable or ready for life....referring to cycle.

Just from my point of view but there is also filtration, lighting, slight change in water parameters, temperature, human hands digging around, tankmates etc. that have to be considered. I won't argue the whole NLS thing too much since I have not kept Tropheus as long as others but I have read through about every info regarding them on the net.....even translated those in other langauges to see what they said...but for one to point the finger at it without even knowing any other factor is in my point of view a "hater".

What if I fed my trophs that the whole time in my possession have only eaten pellets, some flakes and they bloated? would that still be because of being previously fed NLS? or would that be because of something else in this case?

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

I have feed NLS and Flake Mix foods at each feeding for over 2 years now, and only had one case of bloat, and about 3 cases of Dropsy.

Prior to that I feed Hikari Excel pre-soaked and Flake Food Mix for 6 years and had only 2 case of bloat, and 2 cases of Dropsy.

Prior to that I feed only Flake food mix for 2 years and never had bloat and never had dropsy.

I see the trend, but I also recognize that the fish are different from many other sources that the quality of shiping and handling may not have been the same.

In this case particular, as with my last case of Bloat the real issue was with the Ectodus.  I have only found 4 other people who keep these fish (Cichlid Forum).  Possiblly NLS is just too much for them, I am not sure.

Tim pretty much has the same water as I do, and we feed the same foods.  And we had the same problem with the Ectodus.

Tim when I was treating I also only feed the Flake Mix.  I have gone back to my regular feeding regime of NLS and Flake Mix for the past couple weeks, and you saw my fish, they are strong healthy eaters.

When I move the Ectodus over to the 115 gallon, I might change their diet around to be flake mix and frozen brine/spirulina cubes and possibly consider the discontinued use of NLS on them.  Not sure though..

Geoff

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Mike, do you feel the way you do towards NLS because NLS is a pellet or because its NLS?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Are we gonna ask to see what other conditions these fish are kept in or is the fact that they are getting NLS enough? What about the flakes that these guys are getting which is a staple in both cases in recent or is that not a factor since flakes are the best food there is?

Has anyone ever seen delock feed his trophs/petros? According to the whole NLS hate wagon, delock's fish should be exploding in his tanks due to an extreme bloat case.....

I have read more problems with people having bloat problems which had both NLS and flakes vs. Just NLS alone.....call me crazy but its something I have noticed....

[bethesdaboy]

Re: 150 Gallon Tanganyikan Tank

Wow, NLS and bloat..............