450 gallon setup. HELP NEEDED!!

[rage]

with the LR, going to just get some and a bunch of base rock. will just let the tank cycle for 1-2 months and constantly test water. about the lights, going to just do something cheap since just starting off with FOWLR. also, you're right. bigger tanks do allow for more mistakes, which i most likely will make since it's a first saltwater tank

From what you read, what do you think base rock is? If you want rocks that become "live" later on, you will need the porous rocks where bacterias can live. Not any old rocks will become live. The only thing you can do to save money is to buy rocks that used to be live rocks but have been left out to dry. The bacterias are not there any more but after you put them in a salt tank for a while, the bacterias population will grow, thus make the rocks live. To me, the saving is not that much since you can't hardly find dead rocks for under $2/ lb. If you are patient, you can find live rocks for $2/ lb.

i was thinking of using tap water with tap water conditioners but i'll just try making a small batch first to get tested. if it's clean enough, i'll use it. if not, we'll have to invest in a RO system.

How are you going to determine if the water is clean enough? With tap water, the only thing you can measure is the TDS, total dissolved solids, and it's actually known to be around 200-400 ppm depending on the city where you live. You won't know exactly what is in it though. You can get the city to give you the water quality report but it just gets you the names of umpteen chemicals, unless you are a chemist, you wouldn't know what they are and how they affect live stocks.

I alluded to it before, to make the 1st batch of water, you can just dump 400G of tap water in your tank, put in some salt, use a water pump to mix it up BUT what do you do when you need to change water?

[nightster]

reefcleaners.org has awesome base rock for $1.80 a pound (50lbs for $90). They get it from some quarry in Florida. Extremely porous, if I ever did another saltwater tank I'd use them again.

[rage]

reefcleaners.org has awesome base rock for $1.80 a pound (50lbs for $90). They get it from some quarry in Florida. Extremely porous, if I ever did another saltwater tank I'd use them again.

How much for shipping?

[nightster]

Well im wrong, I just went to their site its $115 for 50lbs now, so $2.30 a lb. Shipping is free...

[rage]

Well im wrong, I just went to their site its $115 for 50lbs now, so $2.30 a lb. Shipping is free...

Then you could look around in town for live rocks at $2/ lb.

[nightster]

Then you could look around in town for live rocks at $2/ lb.

Maybe from an individual, I've never heard of a lfs selling it cheaper than $3.99 a pound.

[trbkrb]

Maybe from an individual, I've never heard of a lfs selling it cheaper than $3.99 a pound.

Yes, I see rock all the time sold by individuals on MARSH for around $2 - $3 a pound, but you have to jump on it fast. I know Dennis at FJW Aquarium sells it for less than $4, last time I got some from him it was about $3, but that was last year.

[nightster]

Its funny BC I just sold around 35lbs of liverock for $40. Dang sounds like a good deal over at fjw...

[vinc]

Trust me there is no need to reinforce your stand the only thing I would do is put a piece of plywood on the back so the stand doesn't rack. That stand is way overbuilt

Also there is no need to turn it over so the 2X6 is on the top either

that's good to know we won't have to flip it over somehow. we're planning to turn the stand into a cabinet so there'll be extra wood here and there on it.

From what you read, what do you think base rock is? If you want rocks that become "live" later on, you will need the porous rocks where bacterias can live. Not any old rocks will become live. The only thing you can do to save money is to buy rocks that used to be live rocks but have been left out to dry. The bacterias are not there any more but after you put them in a salt tank for a while, the bacterias population will grow, thus make the rocks live. To me, the saving is not that much since you can't hardly find dead rocks for under $2/ lb. If you are patient, you can find live rocks for $2/ lb.

How are you going to determine if the water is clean enough? With tap water, the only thing you can measure is the TDS, total dissolved solids, and it's actually known to be around 200-400 ppm depending on the city where you live. You won't know exactly what is in it though. You can get the city to give you the water quality report but it just gets you the names of umpteen chemicals, unless you are a chemist, you wouldn't know what they are and how they affect live stocks.

I alluded to it before, to make the 1st batch of water, you can just dump 400G of tap water in your tank, put in some salt, use a water pump to mix it up BUT what do you do when you need to change water?

yea, i did some asking around before and some reading and thought base rock was just dried up live rock so i guess that part was right. i figured if i could find it around $2/pound that's still half of what it'll cost for regular live rock. i did find a place that said he could order live rock by the crate for me which would cost $2-$3/pound for fiji live rock.

about checking the water, i was going to try mixing a small batch and having petsmart/petco test it. is that a bad idea? i'm going to start doing some research on RO systems to see how big i'd need and how much it'd cost. the tank is at dad's house in katy, texas.

reefcleaners.org has awesome base rock for $1.80 a pound (50lbs for $90). They get it from some quarry in Florida. Extremely porous, if I ever did another saltwater tank I'd use them again.

How much for shipping?

Well im wrong, I just went to their site its $115 for 50lbs now, so $2.30 a lb. Shipping is free...

definately going to check this website out. if anything, i'll just order from here. free shipping FTW! lol

Then you could look around in town for live rocks at $2/ lb.

Maybe from an individual, I've never heard of a lfs selling it cheaper than $3.99 a pound.

i think city pets will sell for less. i also checked fish land and fish ranch. fish ranch can order by the crate but that website mentioned above seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Yes, I see rock all the time sold by individuals on MARSH for around $2 - $3 a pound, but you have to jump on it fast. I know Dennis at FJW Aquarium sells it for less than $4, last time I got some from him it was about $3, but that was last year.

i think i stopped by his place a few days ago. it's $3 something but closer to $4

Its funny BC I just sold around 35lbs of liverock for $40. Dang sounds like a good deal over at fjw...

damn! i shoulda bought that! lol

[jhenry]

The one thing you need to do it support the stand from racking form front to back and side to side the is a scrary issue. You don't want 450g starting to move at all. Cause their will be no stopping it. If you need Andy pointers and strengthing your stand don't hesitate in calling me 281.739.8723

[rage]

about checking the water, i was going to try mixing a small batch and having petsmart/petco test it. is that a bad idea? i'm going to start doing some research on RO systems to see how big i'd need and how much it'd cost.

Read up on tank cycling.
PetSmart or Petco will test Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate for you which are essentials but there are other chemicals in tap water which are not great for salt water fish and a no-no for reef tank. Some people say they get by with it but the experts say they will regret it later.

Read up on RO/ DI. You don't have a lot of choice on sizes. A 75 gpd RO/DI system is pretty standard, it doesn't make 75 gallons per day though, maybe 50 if your house water pressure is decent.
You still have not thought about the mechanics of changing out the water yet. To change out 25% of your water, you need to make and store 100g of new water, mix with salt for a day or so before replacing your tank water. Do you have a 100g container handy?

[rage]

The one thing you need to do it support the stand from racking form front to back and side to side the is a scrary issue. You don't want 450g starting to move at all. Cause their will be no stopping it. If you need Andy pointers and strengthing your stand don't hesitate in calling me 281.739.8723

Exactly, 400 g of water is about 3200 lbs, the weight of a car, do you begin to understand the project you are taking on?

[vinc]

The one thing you need to do it support the stand from racking form front to back and side to side the is a scrary issue. You don't want 450g starting to move at all. Cause their will be no stopping it. If you need Andy pointers and strengthing your stand don't hesitate in calling me 281.739.8723

I'm going to turn the stand into a cabinet so that should be enough support holding it from rocking back/fourth side/side right? I'll probably call some time this weekend if before I fill the tank with water. 450g moving around would be pretty scary!

Read up on tank cycling.
PetSmart or Petco will test Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate for you which are essentials but there are other chemicals in tap water which are not great for salt water fish and a no-no for reef tank. Some people say they get by with it but the experts say they will regret it later.

Read up on RO/ DI. You don't have a lot of choice on sizes. A 75 gpd RO/DI system is pretty standard, it doesn't make 75 gallons per day though, maybe 50 if your house water pressure is decent.
You still have not thought about the mechanics of changing out the water yet. To change out 25% of your water, you need to make and store 100g of new water, mix with salt for a day or so before replacing your tank water. Do you have a 100g container handy?

I'm going to do some research on those now to see which would work well and how much it'd cost. We were planning on having someone come do maintenance on the tank and they'd be bringing water for water changes. I asked a friend who said it usually costs <$1.50 per gallon but for a tank that size, it'll add up. I'm going to look into mixing water and the RO/DI filters and see if we have space somewhere around the house to put all this stuff.

Exactly, 400 g of water is about 3200 lbs, the weight of a car, do you begin to understand the project you are taking on?

Yea, I got a little worried put it into an online calculator the other day when some people on here were saying the stand would not be strong enough to hold up the tank. The total weight of the project is pretty scary. lol.

[rage]

We were planning on having someone come do maintenance on the tank and they'd be bringing water for water changes. I asked a friend who said it usually costs <$1.50 per gallon but for a tank that size, it'll add up.

It does cost a lot, does that cost include the labor? How often do you plan on changing water?
Do people really truck around 100g for water change? Moving 800 lbs of water is a lot of trouble.

My Water General RO/ DI system costs ~$150 new. Some other brand costs ~$200. Individuals rarely resell them but sometimes they do for less.
I have a 125G tank and I didn't change out filters until after 1 1/2 year for ~$100. For your tank, probably 6 months.

[trbkrb]

If that is what you are talking about, $1.50 a gallon is expensive for mixed salt water, so I hope that does include labor to change it and some tank maintenance.

Say your salt is $50 for a 200 gal bucket. That is about $.25 a gallon for salt. Say your RO/DI filter system is $200. If you get 1,000 gallons from it, that is $.20 a gallon. But you may get more before the filters need to be changed, depending on your water condition. So the total cost per gallon if you mix it yourself is about $.45 plus whatever the water company charges which is probably less than $.04 or so per gallon, accounting for the waste water too. So that is about $.50 cost for each gallon of mixed salt water.

There are several sponsors on www.MARSHreef.com that sell the RO/DI systems; Air, Water & Ice, Buckeye Field Supply, and Purely H2O. Russ at BFS is VERY helpful in getting you what you need and also with getting things set up after the sale.

As for water changes and storage, I would change more like 50-60 gallons every 2-3 weeks or so, maybe even less often until you get corals. You can get a couple of the gray 32 gal Brute garbage cans with wheels on them and use them for your RO/DI water and salt mixing.

And also, the LFS will not be able to test much about your base water unless they have a TDS meter. And even then, it will just give you a number reading, it does not tell you WHAT is in the water. Hate to sound like a broken record (or a stuck CD or whatever for you kids!) but getting the RO/DI filter will give you one less problem to worry about. And even if you have the water changed by someone else, I would still test it. A handheld TDS meter is about $25 and gives you that extra measure of safety.