Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

subprime-mortgage meltdown; Is the default due to morgage companies or the borrower?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • subprime-mortgage meltdown; Is the default due to morgage companies or the borrower?

    Article from The Economist;



    In print;

    Numeracy and the subprime crisis

    Numbers game
    May 13th 2010
    From Economist.com


    Many defaulting subprime borrowers flunked a simple numeracy test. Dare to try it?




    IN AMERICA'S subprime-mortgage meltdown, why did some borrowers manage to struggle on, keeping up with their payments, while others defaulted? Subprime borrowers were all, by definition, people with poor credit histories, prone to financial problems, yet their ability to repay differed widely. A study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta has found that what makes the difference is the borrower's basic numeracy. They gave a simple quiz to a group of subprime borrowers who had similar personal circumstances and had taken out the same type of loan. They found that those who flunked the test were much more prone to defaulting than the numerate, who were much more likely to manage to keep paying.
    The numeracy quiz that the study's authors gave to their sample of borrowers was hardly rocket science. Click here for our quick version of it: take it yourself, and see how you would have fared.


    Copyright © 2010 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.





    Here is the quiz reffered at the end of the article;

    Numeracy quiz

    In a sale, a shop is selling all items at half price. Before the sale, a sofa costs $300. How much will it cost in the sale?
    $200
    $150
    $450
    $120
    If the chance of getting a disease is 10 per cent, how many people out of 1,000 would be expected to get the disease?
    100
    10,000
    1,000
    200
    A second hand car dealer is selling a car for $6,000. This is two-thirds of what it cost new. How much did the car cost new?
    $9,000
    $4,000
    $8,000
    $9,999
    If 5 people all have the winning numbers in the lottery and the prize is $2 million, how much will each of them get?
    $100,000
    $500,000
    $400,000
    $200,000
    Say you have $200 in a savings account. The account earns ten per cent interest per year. How much will you have in the account at the end of two years?
    $224
    $240
    $242
    $220


    If the answers to the quiz are needed let me know.

    sunrise

  • #2
    The cause was due to three parts. First it started with the Clinton administration relaxing standards to buy a home and further propogated by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who were in bed one literally with mortgage companies. The second was the mortgage companies willingness to extend credit to people who didnt deserve it because they thought that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae will back the mortgages in the event of default. So the mortgage companies went on a tear giving everyone they could find credit because the government let them and they started raking in the money from interest rates. Then of course the consumers some out of ignorance and some due to bold face lies by the mortgage companies settled themselves with mortgages that they couldnt afford so they got into ARMs when money was cheap and as the economy slowed and credit dried up interest rates started to jump and the mortgage companies began raising rates. As the defaults started coming in the mortgage companies started handing the bad debts over to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. But what no one knew was that the amount of loans out there was far bigger then they had thought so much more that the defaults actually bankrupted Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae the two largest loan servicers that are fully backed by the federal government.
    Resident fish bum
    330G FOWLR
    34G Reef
    330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
    28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
    Treasurer, GHAC

    Comment


    • #3
      And one of the biggest things that brought this all to light is the FASB (Financial Accounting Standards Board) passed SFAS 157 (now part of the Accounting Standards Codification Topic 810) a statement on how to account for financial items and that all items must be revalued and stated at market value. Well banks and mortgage companies recorded on their books the face value of the mortgage receivable with out ever re-valuing them, well once the statement became into affect banks had to start valuing all of there mortgages at the current value for the contract and began taking huge losses because these mortgages were sitting on their books when they should have been written off since many of them were deemed uncollectible and worthless. So although accountants screwed up during 2000-2001 with Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and others. They got this right and though it created an economic downturn it was bound to happen its just the FASB caused it to happen sooner and by many accounts it was less severe then if it were to have gone on longer.
      Resident fish bum
      330G FOWLR
      34G Reef
      330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
      28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
      Treasurer, GHAC

      Comment


      • #4
        Ultimately the responsibility is on the consumers. Too many people out there have their priorities out of whack. I blame this primarily on the entitlement society our government has created, but personal responsibility or lack of is to blame.

        There are too many people out there living living in government housing but have big screen TV's and XBox's and driving a Lexus.
        There are too many people out there spending $200 to $300 monthly on cable, Internet and cell phones but are not willing to purchase insurance for themselves.
        There are too many people out there buying "Bling" expensive purses, luxury (non necessity) items but not taking care of their responsibilities.
        And there are too many people who purchased homes, NO financed homes they could not afford.

        It's the ridiculous sense of entitlement that has run rampant.

        Other than a home and a car (which is debatable), If you can't pay cash for something without being strapped until pay day... YOU DON"T NEED IT and shouldn't be buying it.

        Dave Ramsey's "Financial Peace University" should be required before ANYONE can open a line of credit.
        All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

        "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

        Comment


        • #5
          Thats why I think the health insurance is a complete scam we are giving insurance to a vast majority of people that just dont want to have it. A lot of people arent getting it because they dont have the money they just rather spend the money on other things.
          Resident fish bum
          330G FOWLR
          34G Reef
          330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
          28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
          Treasurer, GHAC

          Comment


          • #6
            BTW Darbex,

            Excellent technical assessment, NO, explanation of what led t the situation. I would say I agree but there is no room for agreement or disagreement since you clearly stated the facts and the facts are really not debatable. So I will simply say...

            You are correct.
            All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

            "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

            Comment


            • #7
              Imaguygeek,

              I agree that ultimately the responsibility is on the consumers. No one forced the consumer to sign the mortgage or contract. Using the consumers lifestyle in putting their priorities in a different direction than being responsible with their money is not against the law or restricted in society. The consumer will eventually pay a price for being irresponsible with their money. Being stupid is not against the law! I just don't like being taken to the cleaners for their irresponsible behavior by having Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae bail the mortgage companies out! The mortgage companies should take the loss along with the government officials that created this situation in the first place!

              sunrise

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sunrise View Post
                Imaguygeek,

                I agree that ultimately the responsibility is on the consumers. No one forced the consumer to sign the mortgage or contract. Using the consumers lifestyle in putting their priorities in a different direction than being responsible with their money is not against the law or restricted in society. The consumer will eventually pay a price for being irresponsible with their money. Being stupid is not against the law! I just don't like being taken to the cleaners for their irresponsible behavior by having Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae bail the mortgage companies out! The mortgage companies should take the loss along with the government officials that created this situation in the first place!

                sunrise
                I agree with what you said, in theory. However I have a slightly different view and that is, kick the idiots out on the streets, teach them one of life's hard lessons, let the mortgage companies take the loss and sell the houses on the open market. The current plan for redistribution of wealth where Freddie and Fannie just reduce the mortgage amount is absurd.
                All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

                "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's everyone's fault. It's the consumers fault for borrowing to much when they can't afford it. It's the banks fault for miss leading the consumer into thinking they will get their loans modified and then go sell the house from under them.

                  Only winner are lawyers that get paid by banks and consumers a like to come in and clean up the mess.
                  I ate my fish that died.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When someone gambles all their money away, do you blame the casinos?

                    When someone kills someone else with a gun, do you blame the gun manufacturer?
                    Experiencing an aquatic renaissance!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
                      I agree with what you said, in theory. However I have a slightly different view and that is, kick the idiots out on the streets, teach them one of life's hard lessons, let the mortgage companies take the loss and sell the houses on the open market. The current plan for redistribution of wealth where Freddie and Fannie just reduce the mortgage amount is absurd.
                      I concur. We have the same opinion! You stated it better than I.

                      Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae are actually committing a giant land grab in order to sell property outright on the open market, rent the property or to provide housing through government programs.

                      sunrise
                      Last edited by sunrise; 05-18-2010, 09:10 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do agree that most of the blame falls on the consumers. About 5 years ago I got a wild hare up my ***, (I'll admit that it was fueled by the fact that most of my friends and family were buying homes at the time, taking advantage of the "cheap" money floating around) I had a decent credit score (not nearly high enough in retrospect) and a couple of grand saved for a down payment (not near enough in retrospect) and I began shopping around. I had several lenders offer me ARM loans with ballooning payments, and even though my wife and I had picked out the perfect home and felt confidant in securing the financing if we wanted it, the terms just never sounded right. CAVEAT EMPTOR. Even though my wife was pissed at me at the time I backed out, I stayed in my 1 bedroom apt., lost about 1500 bucks of good faith money and today I'm happy as hell I did, because had I not I would have been right up there with the rest of them. Although it does chap my A$$ that when all is said and done, it will be the mortgage companies who stand to make the most from this. They're going to hold on to these homes until their values are back to where they were (or higher) and then re-sell them.
                        ‎Haiku's are easy
                        But sometimes they don't make sense
                        Refrigerator

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mortgage companies don't make money by holding property. They actually lose money.

                          They make money when consumers are paying for their loans.

                          Property sitting empty does not make them money. The land values in Texas will not go up much as it didn't go down much.
                          I ate my fish that died.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The good thing about Texas was due to the real estate bust in the 80s the state legislation passed laws that helped prevent the bust from happening here like the rest of the country.
                            Resident fish bum
                            330G FOWLR
                            34G Reef
                            330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
                            28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
                            Treasurer, GHAC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Plus we didn't have the employment loss most other states experienced.
                              ‎Haiku's are easy
                              But sometimes they don't make sense
                              Refrigerator

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X