I have a question.

[wesleydnunder]

No...I'm saying he was elected, at least in part, by a feeling of people, not just blacks, that it was "time" to have a black president. I'm saying that a lot of people looked past his politics because they wanted to make history, to feel good that they had been a part of fighting racism, policies be damned. There are several black people that could have run that I would have voted for long before Obama and ahead of McCain as well. It doesn't have anything to do with skin color. It has to do with values.

I had a really pretty black girlfriend some years ago...I received (and she did too, for that matter) far more crap from black people than I did from white people. Now, please, go ahead and tell me that black people can't be racist.

I think a lot of folks voted for Obama on the power of his speeches as well. The man is a powerful orator.

Charles, Shelia and I found that to be the case as well when we dated. Mostly, it was the older generation of black folks against it but she actually got threats and told to move out of her neighborhood because I was white. We got some really hateful looks and one night an old black woman cut in front of us in line at Walmart and when I said something, she looked at Shelia and mumbled, "What you get". I didn't realize how much grief she got at work from black city employees until told about it later.

Mark

[wesleydnunder]

there is no solution to discrimination...if we were all one race then people would find something else to discriminate against. religion, location, short, tall, fat, ugly, pretty or whatever. people don't like whats different, most of the time because they dont even like themselves.

Man, you got that right!

Mark

[wesleydnunder]

You know...Genetically speaking, there is no such thing as race.

Micro-evolution, like the Tropheus variants.

Mark

[cichlid1409]

groups of people that have evolved in different areas of the world are genetically predisposed to have certain traits. so gentics define a race.

[jeebus]

You know...Genetically speaking, there is no such thing as race.

I can't seem to decipher this enough to agree or disagree with you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(c...f_human_beings)

Yeah, yeah, its wiki... I know...

[Mzungu]

I can't seem to decipher this enough to agree or disagree with you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(c...f_human_beings)

Yeah, yeah, its wiki... I know...

From the link you posted:

"Large parts of the academic community take the position that, while racial categories may be marked by sets of common phenotypic or genotypic traits, the popular idea of "race" is a social construct without base in scientific fact.[7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]"

It really irked the Eugenics movement that they couldn't find a genetically based reason to kill off certain "races."

[myjohnson]

I think a lot of folks voted for Obama on the power of his speeches as well. The man is a powerful orator.

+1. I think he was the best speaker out the lot.

[Mzungu]

Micro-evolution, like the Tropheus variants.

Mark

?? Not entirely sure what you mean, Mark. But, sorry for any confusion, I was talking about humans. :)

[Mzungu]

More from the link you posted, jeebus (BTW, it sounds like my physical anthro professor wrote this, LOL):

"The Statement on "Race" (1998) composed by a select committee of anthropologists and issued by the executive board of the American Anthropological Association as a statement they "believe [...] represents generally the contemporary thinking and scholarly positions of a majority of anthropologists", declares:

With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, ... it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. [...] Given what we know about the capacity of normal humans to achieve and function within any culture, we conclude that present-day inequalities between so-called "racial" groups are not consequences of their biological inheritance but products of historical and contemporary social, economic, educational, and political circumstances.[10]

In an ongoing debate, some geneticists argue that race is neither a meaningful concept nor a useful heuristic device,[67] and even that genetic differences among groups are biologically meaningless,[68] because more genetic variation exists within such races than among them, and that racial traits overlap without discrete boundaries."

[wesleydnunder]

?? Not entirely sure what you mean, Mark. But, sorry for any confusion, I was talking about humans. :)

What I meant was, just as Tropheus are basically one species of fish, there are variants within the species for different reasons: locale, habitat, whatever... y'all know better than I why they are there and why they look different than the next variant. Earlier this was given as an example of micro-evolution.

Each variant, if mated with a member of the same variant, will produce offspring of that variant. However, they can reproduce with members of other variants which will produce something of a mix, a hybrid (not sure hybrid is the right word here). Those offspring are still tropheus but not a recognized member either of the original variants. Also, members of the same variant when they reproduce will not have offspring of another variant. For instance, when two pure Duboisi mate they will not produce a school of Rainbows (can't remember the variant name of those gorgeous rainbows).

Ok, I look at humans the same way. From the human Genome project we know that humans have a common ancestor in Africa, a woman some had dubbed Mother Eve. When humans migrated out of Africa they began to change subtly for various reasons into what we now call races. If two Namibians reproduce, their baby will look much like them in features, hair and skin tone. Two Japanese will produce a baby that looks like the Japanese mom and dad. Each of these "races" are simply variants of the human species. Just like the Tropheus, when mated with a member of their own variant, the offspring looks similar to the original. When mated with a different variant, the offspring is something in between, but still a human.

Mark

[Mzungu]

What I meant was, just as Tropheus are basically one species of fish, there are variants within the species for different reasons: locale, habitat, whatever... y'all know better than I why they are there and why they look different than the next variant. Earlier this was given as an example of micro-evolution.

Each variant, if mated with a member of the same variant, will produce offspring of that variant. However, they can reproduce with members of other variants which will produce something of a mix, a hybrid (not sure hybrid is the right word here). Those offspring are still tropheus but not a recognized member either of the original variants. Also, members of the same variant when they reproduce will not have offspring of another variant. For instance, when two pure Duboisi mate they will not produce a school of Rainbows (can't remember the variant name of those gorgeous rainbows).

Ok, I look at humans the same way. From the human Genome project we know that humans have a common ancestor in Africa, a woman some had dubbed Mother Eve. When humans migrated out of Africa they began to change subtly for various reasons into what we now call races. If two Namibians reproduce, their baby will look much like them in features, hair and skin tone. Two Japanese will produce a baby that looks like the Japanese mom and dad. Each of these "races" are simply variants of the human species. Just like the Tropheus, when mated with a member of their own variant, the offspring looks similar to the original. When mated with a different variant, the offspring is something in between.

Mark

Ahh, okay. Gotcha. Thanks!

With humans, since we're all the same species, many have tried to find a scientific basis for race. Unfortunately for them, what they've found is that the genetic differences within "races" are more numerous than those found when comparing a different "race" to another.

A bit off topic, but it's exciting that more genetic analyses are being done with African cichlid species. This could really shed some light on their origins, as well as confuse the heck out of those of us trying to keep up with their scientific names. )

[Delock]

Sooooo.... what's the solution? Actually, lets first identify all the contributing factors to the problem, then lets talk solution.

yea...change to an albino?

[Nickintex]

Isn't it ironic that victims of bigotry can be bigots themselves?

[stevenallenbarnard]

I personally thingthat most people are somewhat predisposed to their own race. (I say most because there are SEVERAL white girls walking around my apts with cornrows in their hair if you know what I mean.) It doesn't necessarily mean that one dislikes/hates another race. Prejudice does exist on all sides of the spectrum though. My family was poor so I always lived where it was kinda ghetto (I went to elementary school on MLK Blvd) and I can't tell you how many times I was called a "punk *** white boy" just walking to the corner store. My family is also VERY VERY VERY southern, so I also remember the time my 102 year old great grandfather made the comment that the chocolate pie looked like MArtin Luther King one thanksgiving about 15 years ago. we'll always feel more comfortable around cultures that we grew up with.

[eklikewhoa]

I think it plays a huge role in everyday life.

Can't judge a book by it's cover but people sure damn well will base their decision on whether to allow it to prove itself otherwise