Delock have questions.....

[Nickintex]

Re: Delock have questions.....

attention whore...

You mean attention "hustler"?
At least you did not call me a "Drama Queen"  

[fishlady]

Re: Delock have questions.....

8O

[treehuggingfishlover]

Re: Delock have questions.....

Here I go....  LOL

In the last 100 years this country has been on a downward trend of spending more money than we bring in.  Credit cards, college tuition, medical bills (from a failed health care system), real estate, cars, recreation, travel and on and on and on and on.  This is not the definition of capatalism.  This was not the vision of our founding forefathers.

Capitalism- a socio-economic system based on private property rights, including the private ownership of resources or capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a free market rather than by state control.

You need to have CAPITAL (ie MONEY) for Capitalism to work.  Instead of working hard and saving money to buy things, people just borrow money from the magick money machine in the sky and wonder why their 401Ks are about to disappear.  The money has to come from somewhere, folks.

People think that BORROWING more money is ok, yet it simply perpetuates the problem.  This has spilled over to our government- we are borrowing money at a rate that should be criminal, and Fishlady is absolutely correct- it is you and me, the TAXPAYERS that will be funding these bailouts for the next 10+ years.

What can/should we do?

1. Bring our troops HOME from Iraq and Afganistan (save 1 trillion+ dollars in the process).  Osama Bin Ladin has been around for a while, since the 80's, making touble for the world.  Instead of sending in our troops, Aircraft Carriers, equipment, etc. to enforce "Demacracy", send over the CIA and the Navy Seals and kill his a$$ and get it over with.  It's not that difficult, and it's nothing new for this country to get rid of people we don't like.  And for all those that say, "that's not moral and ethical", well, do you think sending over innocent 19 year old soldiers to murder other 19 year old soldiers, all of which are pawns of their respective governments is any more moral or ethical?    

2. Stop spending money that we don't have.  Can't afford that $45,000 car?  DON"T BUY IT!  Do you have to take out a loan for that family vacation? DON"T GO THIS YEAR!  It's pretty simple.  It's not everyone else's responsibility to "save" us when we can't afford to pay for the things we've put on credit (which is what happens when people file for Bankruptcy).  That includes our government- these rediculous "bailout plans" are nothing more than big credit cards we are handing these corporations.  THE MONEY DOESN"T EXIST! We have to pay for it out of our own pockets, people!  There isn't a government money machine that is going to take care of it for us.

Anyway, that is my take on it.  On a positive note, I don't think it's all doom and gloom.  I do have hope that things will turn around soon.  The American people simply need to wake up and open our eyes and get involved in what our politicians are doing.  Not all politicians are criminals, but many are.  It's time to weed them out and move on.

[CichlidFan]

Re: Delock have questions.....

Consider this quote from former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961-Military Industrial Complex Speech

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.


It would seem, no one got the memo on this speach....??

CF

[jeebus]

Re: Delock have questions.....

What can/should we do?

1. Bring our troops HOME from Iraq and Afganistan (save 1 trillion+ dollars in the process).  Osama Bin Ladin has been around for a while, since the 80's, making touble for the world.  Instead of sending in our troops, Aircraft Carriers, equipment, etc. to enforce "Demacracy", send over the CIA and the Navy Seals and kill his a$$ and get it over with.  It's not that difficult, and it's nothing new for this country to get rid of people we don't like.  And for all those that say, "that's not moral and ethical", well, do you think sending over innocent 19 year old soldiers to murder other 19 year old soldiers, all of which are pawns of their respective governments is any more moral or ethical?

 
This will not fix the economy as the end of the war will cause thousands of civilian war job lay-offs, as well as displace thousands of soldiers who will resign from the military but not be able to find work due to the current recession.

It will make economic matters far worse before it would make them better. I agree with your moral argument however.

2. Stop spending money that we don't have.  Can't afford that $45,000 car?  DON"T BUY IT!  Do you have to take out a loan for that family vacation? DON"T GO THIS YEAR!  It's pretty simple.  It's not everyone else's responsibility to "save" us when we can't afford to pay for the things we've put on credit (which is what happens when people file for Bankruptcy).  That includes our government- these rediculous "bailout plans" are nothing more than big credit cards we are handing these corporations.  THE MONEY DOESN"T EXIST! We have to pay for it out of our own pockets, people!  There isn't a government money machine that is going to take care of it for us.

This will work.

[treehuggingfishlover]

Re: Delock have questions.....

Jeebus- we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

With all the money we would be saving by not being over there, it would enable us to CREATE more jobs here.  If we poured as much money into our own economy as we have in the last 20 years in the middle east, it would be foolish to think it wouldn't make a difference here on our own soil.  Honestly, it's just wasted money over there.  We're never going to 'force" them to have a government like us or follow our policy.  Why would they?  Our economy is sinking because we've got it all backwards.  And the rest of the world see it.

And, I spent time in the US military.  In fact I remember being in Aviation Ordnanceman school (bomb building and munitions), sitting in a classroom with AFGANISTAN AND KAJIKISTAN AND OTHER STANS SOLDIERS.  We trained them ourselves!  So, lets talk a bit more about wasted money.  We gave them weapons, sent them through our schools, put the Taliban in power, and NOW we're trying to fix things by taking over their country?  It's bad politics and a waste of money.  

I do believe in diplomacy.  Having Amabassadors and working through a world policy is fine.  But I just don't agree with us having so many troops over there fighting for who know what (there are so many militia and seperatists groups- no one ever knows who's who).

But, as we all know there are no easy answers.  I look at the state of our economy as I do my budget (which is quite depressing-lol)  We have to take a look at what we're spending our money on, add that to a simple equation with how much money we're bringing in.  In most cases (especially lately) there are things I have to eliminate in order to come out even.  We need to take a long hard look at where all our money is going in this country, and decide as citizens if we agree with that.  I personally do not agree with the amount of money we're spending on our military right now.  It's just silly.  Especially in light of our Social Security system bubble that's about to burst like the housing market did last year.  

Anyway, it's a good topic for discussion- and it's great that forums like this make it possible for people to share their thoughts and ideas.  It is in this way we can bring the true spirit of our country back......

[PhishPhreek]

Re: Delock have questions.....

"Guns or Butter" is one of the age old lessons in any Economics 101 class.
If we're not making guns, we can make more butter.
But if we keep buying Forign butter and not selling American beef we'll go broke.
We need to ballance trade with forign countries or we will export all of our jobs.

Delock it's all a baised on fear.  Production, lay-offs, price cuts are all due to management fear due to the news media panic rumors. Shoot the messenger !
Dont spend because you won't get any more money.
You can't sell it for that because the imports are cheeper
Stop overtime because you wont be able to sell everything.
You'll loose money next year so lay off non-essencial workers.
Don't expand, you'll not be able to sell more.
Dont expect to be able to borrow money to expand.

[Zulaab]

Re: Delock have questions.....

I have one question....

If say we remove all of our soldiers from Iraq, Afghanistan etc... and say 3 yrs later a nuclear bomb goes off in say New York and Los Angeles at the same time, and we get a message -- this was from Osama etc.. (some terrorist group taking responsibility) with say with a projected killing of 30 million civilians in these two blasts...  will you or will you not tell your president ...  hey we went there once and you pulled us out.. you are NOT going to send us back now are you ??????

Because I will be one of those people telling you at that time..  "we kept the war there, by going there, and not on our own soil, you brought us home, so they could continue the fight here"

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Delock have questions.....

White America.

[Nickintex]

Re: Delock have questions.....

White America.

 

[Darbex]

Re: Delock have questions.....

What we need is to allow the economy to run its course with no interaction from the government except in the instances there were gross criminality of corporations and for the most part the recession is not due to criminal acts but rather corporations doing things to liberally under the laws that were pushed for Home ownership and others.

[jeebus]

Re: Delock have questions.....

Jeebus- we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

With all the money we would be saving by not being over there, it would enable us to CREATE more jobs here.

Give me some examples of new jobs we could use re-allocated war money to create.

I have one question....

If say we remove all of our soldiers from Iraq, Afghanistan etc... and say 3 yrs later a nuclear bomb goes off in say New York and Los Angeles at the same time, and we get a message -- this was from Osama etc.. (some terrorist group taking responsibility) with say with a projected killing of 30 million civilians in these two blasts...  will you or will you not tell your president ...  hey we went there once and you pulled us out.. you are NOT going to send us back now are you ??????

Because I will be one of those people telling you at that time..  "we kept the war there, by going there, and not on our own soil, you brought us home, so they could continue the fight here"

I think we'll be okay if we pull out of Iraq. Logically, we should have not have been there yet. Using traditional offensive tactics, we need to finish the job in Afganistan, push through Iran, then Iraq. Flush all the terrorism west, towards Africa, where it would be VERY easy to control.

White America.

Expand on that one..

[PhishPhreek]

Re: Delock have questions.....

Give me some examples of new jobs we could use re-allocated war money to create.

We could build a brick and barbwire wall between Texas and Mexico just like Berlin

I think we'll be okay if we pull out of Iraq. Logically, we should have not have been there yet. Using traditional offensive tactics, we need to finish the job in Afganistan, push through Iran, then Iraq. Flush all the terrorism west, towards Africa, where it would be VERY easy to control.

I think we should just spray with agent orange until even a camel can't live on that sand pile.

White America.

Expand on that one..

You might be a REDNECK if.................