Blue Neon Eartheaters/eartheaters

[WhiteDevil]

OK, another fine thread from the windy city.


I was checking out this website more in-depth and on the fish profiles tab, under south american cich's there is a NB eartheater....Rarely seen in the trade....anyone know of where these can be obtained? How are other SA eartheaters compared to the profile for the neon blue eartheaters?

SA usually has more plant life, how do the sub-species differentiate from other SA cich's? If I am correct they truly live up to their names and that would mean potted plants only or no plants?

I am getting ideas for a 45 tall that will be open soon or a 52g FBH. I think I might get rid of my guppies for now till I get more smaller tank room(quantity room I should say,moving local by august) and then id also have an unhabitated 40 tall.

With these three tanks

45t....3'x1'x2'
40t....2.5''x1'x2'

52fbh....4'x1'x20"

52 will have a wet/dry,45 will have a mag350, 40t will stay the same with an AC70 HOB and HOT250(got lotsa gups in there,bad I know but the water is clean,tank is perfect so its working not gonna tinker)

I am just fielding ideas, I am very partial to SA cichs because my old man kept texas and africans in multiple tanks growing up, and the challenge seems to be with the SA's rather then with africans parameters and IDEAL natural conditions(40t was my angel BW rio negro, complete with 4.8ph sustained, its obtainable, hard but obtainable) and I prefer a challenge.

I figure if I can breed multiple generations of pangio oblongas (black kuhlli in the trade) in a semi aggressive community tank then I am doing something very right. mind you these are supposedly very hard to breed in captivity,UGF plates are useful people even not hooked up.
My angels are not successful parents to eggs but smaller angels they teach the ropes to, the alpha male takes the juve boys and teaches them things as the female does the same with the girls, I do grow my babies out in the guppy love tank due to the sheer abundance of live fry for them to learn to hunt and stalk and well eat, this is nature after all and there still is a food chain to take into consideration.

I am open to any/all suggestion however the tank sizes are small, yes a 55 is a very small tank to me I grew up around 90's and up and would like to stick to the smaller to dwarf species of whatever is suggested.

Thank you, its great to tap an way outside resource for ideas, many minds out there to tap.

[sunrise]

http://www.tangledupincichlids.com/stock.html

look under Gymnogeophagus in the South American section

also http://cichlaholic.com/lists.html in the Canada price sheet

sunrise

[WhiteDevil]

That is great, but they are just a possibility and pricing isnt really a concern to me, you get what you pay for in life so pay up.

I am looking more for first hand experience with my ideas after all they are just ideas to me but reality to others already.

I do appreciate those links, saved em for sure, canada is close enough just got to check customs.

[mark razmandi]

they are all over the place down here. amost always available.

[WhiteDevil]

they are unheard of up here.

Does anyone here keep them? Im thinking 3-4 weeks before I have any fish that are decided on here, maybe 1-3 weeks left of planning and finishing off the 210 for the discus and cardinals.

[imagirlgeek]

I think he's asking....

How are other SA eartheaters compared to the profile for the neon blue eartheaters?

SA usually has more plant life, how do the sub-species differentiate from other SA cich's? If I am correct they truly live up to their names and that would mean potted plants only or no plants?

Not so much about where to get them...I could be wrong.

Mark - This is your area of expertise...can you share some of that knowledge?

[WhiteDevil]

Yes this is researching, basically doing my homework and covering my rear the whole way thru, I know fish have personalities and each one is individually different but I am trying to find out as much as I can on the species I find interesting and then go from there.

No pun intended but I am FISHing for info basically.

I dont want to have a tank of other SA's and introduce one of these guys and watch my investment go to hell.

[mark razmandi]

alrighty here we go....

there several different major species of eartheaters but the two main ones are GEOPHAGUS and GYMNOGEOPHAGUS

GYMNOGEOPHAGUS - an eartheater species known to be found almost exclusively in Uruguay. there are many different types of gymnos that vary in color and shape and are found at different collection points. They are found in shallow waters in an area where temperature ranges throughout the seasons fluctuate HIGHLY. therefore special care is very necessary for a gymnogeophagus. They require a "cool down" period where the water temperatures are lowered anywhere from 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit. This cool down process lasts for 3 months every year and during the period you need to slow feeding a good amount to anywhere from 2-5 times a week due to the fact that the extreme water temp will slow down their metabolism highly. once the cool down process is completed and the temp is brought back up, this will often trigger breeding season for the gymnos. If the gymnos you receive are tank raised you can often get away with not completing the "cool down" process but their colors will not be as bright. If your gymnos are wild caught of even f1, not putting them through this care will almost always cause colors to fade and death to happen prematurely to your fish. Gymnos are also smaller, less colorful eartheaters ranging anywhere from 3-6in at a MAX.

I have kept several different types of gymnos including blue neons, balzani (my favorite gymno), australis, etc.
I am not so proud to say that i have learned alot this from experience and have had gymnos die prematurely due to my lack of performing a proper "cool down" process. Also, when gymnos are not extensively cared for they become prone to illness and bloat. ALL EARTHEATERS ARE VERY PRONE TO HITH but it is very preventable which i will explain in my next post...


im following this post with another about GEOPHAGUS.

[mark razmandi]

GEOPHAGUS - by far my FAVORITE type of eartheater. They are found all over south america in different rivers like the Rio Araguia, Rio Tocantins, Rio Xingu, Rio Tapajos, etc. They are one fo the most gorgeous fish and most people who dont even keep them will often agree. However they are not as easy as most SA fish. First off, many Geos can grow upwards of 15in and require SUPERRRRR filtration. Geos sift sand and for that matter, a LARGE amount of sand. it is very crucial that sand is the substrate used for the tank. you will need at least 10x turnover to make up for the sand stirred up by the geos. Geos grow very very very long fin trailers, especially on their ventral fins so it is important that they are not kept with fish that nip fins. Geos will always do best with other geos. it is suggested that they be kept in at least groups of 3 but i honestly believe they should be in at least groups of 5 or as a species specific tank or a community with them as the main species. HITH is a huge problem with geos but can be avoided and healed quickly if infected. the biggest thing is to keep them in a varied diet. a varied diet is SUPER important for geos and they require a large amount of vegetable matter. i feed my geos a main staple of tetra color bits mixed with NLS 1mm and they receive blood worms and market shrimp 3 times a week. i try to feed my geos vegetables but mine are very picky. however the best things to use are shelled frozen peas. also do not use carbon in your filters as it has been believed in many cases to be a cause for HITH in geos. they should be kept anywhere from 78-80 degrees and water should be changed once to twice a week. once is only necessary. Most of the time, in a local fish store, a geo will be sold labeled as GEOPHAGUS SURINAMENSIS. this is a lie, seeing as how a GEOPHAGUS SURINAMENSIS is one of the rarest geos exported from europe where it is highly illegal to collect and import them. it has been over 10 years since one has been exported. Most geos sold under that name are some type of altifron varient. If you decide to get geos, which i highly recommend, i will be able to ID any you recieve with just you posting a few pics of them.

Geos are a gorgeous fish with lots of personality. mine will even eat shrimp out of my hands. they are not the easiest of fish to care for but with the right knowledge they are a great fish to have. the only fish i keep are eartheaters and they are my passion. i can answer any questions you have on them and ill be glad to help you with anything else you need as well as compatible tank mates for geos. just let me know man...

BTW my favorite fishing rods are G loomis, i have an IMX and 2 GLXs, one with the recoil guides. they are great rods.

[mark razmandi]

if you are serious about keeping some eartheaters, i can help you pick the perfect species for you setups and the fish you want to keep with your eartheaters. They are a low to moderate aggressive fish that will not cause problems with other fish for the most part but can hold their own with other fish. they usually DO NOT consider smaller fish as food which is great for keeping a school of tetras or smaller fish as an accent, unlike common belief, eartheaters CAN be kept in planted tanks, as i do it as we speak with my Geophagus red head araguias. Ive actually noticed that its the smaller geos that will cause problems digging up plants, not the alrge ones and as long as you root the plants well and place some small rocks around the base of the plants then the geos will not mess with your plants. I also have aquasoil in my planted tank instead of sand and i have not noticed problems with my geos yet.

[WhiteDevil]

Thats good to know. from what ive read they only get defensive or aggressive when pushed to the absolute limit by a pestering tank mate.

Ok HITH remember it from about 20-25 years ago with the large texas cichlids we kept at the time.


Monster DIY Co2 eh? im running 4 2 liters with 1 accumulator sent to the tank via penguin 660R.

I am a limit pusher, I defy the "rules of fishkeeping" or I should say the "internets rules of fishkeeping" If there is a chance they will be fine together I go for it, if not I got many other tanks here and around to accomidate the victim/aggressor elsewhere.

I am quite certain these fish I am looking at relate in no way to the red devils and larger game fish ive kept before.

I appreciate the help please keep it coming, neon blues and what else can work with them SA wise. they clear or stained water? where exactly in the region of the amazon do they come from or which tributary?

I like to replicate as close as I can in my tanks to what they would be in the wild. the natural behaviors come out strong like this ive noticed.


for the record, loomis' are nice if you can spend 150-300 and then some on their higher end stuff, the cheap stuff is no better then st croix and boy do those things snap. I hunt catfish mainly(most aggressive fish around here any anywhere really pure predators, if they hit a metal topwater spoon, then they rank up there with the larger game fish IMHO. Ive come to the conclusion nothing beats an ugly stik, had mine 15 years now and still looks brand new, never snapped anything using their rods, even 25+# king salmons.

[marauder_77868]

The line of "Blue Neons" you're referring to were originally collected by Spencer Jack in northern Uruguay. He originally brought them back as Gymnogeophagus sp. "Norte". They are now being bred in Florida where he sent some of the first fry after he bred them upon his return. So far as I know, but I haven't spoken with him on this since 2007, all those fish are descended from his original stock. They can take cooler water pretty easily. I got quite a few from him at FOTAS 2007 from those first spawns, but I have since cleared them out to make space for other stuff, especially because they're being produced in Florida anyway. This doesn't help too much...but you might file it away under trivia if you get some.

[mark razmandi]

yes, you are right, however norte is not exactly the same eartheater. blue neons would be great for a planted tank since they like cooler water. you can mix ANY other gymno with your blue neons and most geos. as far as other cichlids that work well. severums, uarus in some cases and any other mildly aggressive cichlid should be fine. blue neons top out at about 3.5 inches if even that. they will eat whatever you feed them as well. Make sure you get some tank raised blue neons and not some WC ones or else you will have problems caring for them properly unless youre ready to perform the cool down process which will not be good for any other type of fish, especially if you have any tetras.

hahah ya my DIY Co2 system is about 5 gallons and uses over 25 lbs of sugar

and about the rods, ugly sticks are awesome, all i use for catfish and all i use when i surf fish on the beach. but thats about all they are good for. no sensitivity to or action to work the baits well when finesse fishing or working a texas rig for some bass. thats when i pull out my g loomis, kistler, calcutta etc. but no one can argue with the durability of an ugly stick

[cichlid1409]

great info mark