planted - ph stabilization

[Spot86t]

I've had planted tanks before - no fancy co2 or stuff, just flourite substrate.  Never had problems with that tank.  I've just set up my 55 (standard size) with 2 bags of fluorite, topped with one bag of ada malaya aquasoil (malaya was printed on the price sticker label don't see that word on the bag tho).  The bag and instructions said not to rinse.  The fluorite was from my old tank, and pretty dust free.  Nevertheless I rinsed it again.  Put all the substrate in, added plants, ran filtration til tank was clear, rearranged plants, ran filter again (did this a few times as it clouded so badly.  Did 50% water change to get rid of more 'dust' after adding driftwood.  After it ran clear for 2 days, I removed the flossfilled bags from the powerhead outlets (there were 2 I used for filtering the soil cloudiness when stirred.  I left one in for circulation and removed the other.  I checked chems, all were fine, then added fish, and 2 well established aquaclear 50 hob filters, Within a day, PH had dropped to the bottom of the scale!  Did 25% wc (my tapwater typically reads at nearly 8.0) and checked again that evening.  the wc had brought it up about .3, but that evening it was way low again.  I've read this can sometimes be caused by driftwood, etc, but I'm thinkin it may be teh soil.  I had driftwood (the very same piece) in my previous planted tank, so the soil is the only difference other than the size of the tank (old one was a 40G SeaClear acrylic tank with the wet/dry builtin filter).

Much as I hate to, I've been adding chems  to try and bring it up to a happier level, but they're not making a dent, and I would much rather fix the problem than keep treating the symptom.  I thought about loading another aquaclear hob filter with nothing but shell/crushed coral since that's supposed to help.  Meanwhile I'm about to do anotohter w/c to get it back on the charts at least.

Any other suggestions for stabilizing it at a 7.0 ish range (without chems)?

I'd like to add a layer of black gravel over the soil - would that help?  the ada stuff seems so soft, and the cats would like gravel more I think. Opinions/suggestions on that would be appreciated too!

Inhabitants include 6 rainbowfish, 2 roseline sharks, 2 spotted raphaels, one ropefish, one petricola, adn I've no idea where they came from but 2 guppies got in there too (I think they're almost as bad as snails!).

[Mzungu]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

What was the actual reading of the pH test?

[Spot86t]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

It hits about 6.2 using either test strips, or using the dropper kind (API brand).  On the test strips, kh reads 0  :(.

[rrocket2002]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Add some Holey Rock and Baking Soda.  HR to raise Ph and baking Soda raises a little but also buffers to keep it from getting lower.

Raul

[Spot86t]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Don't have any of that white holey rock,  I have some brownish rock with lots of little holes in it - that was from the ocean.  It was impregnated with lots of 'grown-in' shells/barnacles, etc...  how can I find out if it's the kind of rock that would help?  Wanted to stay with the 'wooded forest' theme - sans rock.  I would like to make some partially submerged caves in the tank for the nocturnal guys to hide in.  Do you konw of any materials I could use to make those that would help?  

sorry bout the swapped letters in my posts - am on an old laptop and the keyboard just aint the same as a normal one...

[wvgdiscus]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Spot86t if your in need of a piece on holly rock?
I have a piece that would go well into a 55 gallon for trade of some guppies.
That is if you have some guppies to spare.

[Mzungu]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

I think it's the soil, too. I believe that's what Aquasoil is designed to do, lower the pH and hardness. I had no idea it would do it so fast, though!

IMO, if you keep trying to alter the pH it really won't matter if your kh is 0. And that would be stressful to the fish, I imagine, if the pH kept swinging all over the place. From what I've heard, Aquasoil takes a few weeks to really stabilize, i.e. for the first few weeks it releases a lot of ammonia. If I were you, I think I'd just wait it out and see what the trend seems to be. No use trying to alter anything right now if everything evens out in a week or two. BUT, I would keep doing those water changes!  8)

[AK-71]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

My Aquasoil "Amazon" version does - I moved everything from the "old" tank and added this soil => amonia went to >2ppm.    
I keep PH at ~6.5 by WC with tap water ~ 10 % every/other day.
My "amazonish" fish though doesn't seem to be stressed by amonia at all at this low PH  (cardinal, glolights, ottos...).
I just wait for it to stabilize.  

Actually, it'll be 2 weeks on sunday - amonia was at ~0.5 yesterday.
As for a new tanks - I couldn't have old and new at the same time - didn't loose qny fish so far
Plants grow like crazy now :)

[eklikewhoa]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Actually their are instructions online somewhere too.


Aquasoil is meant to lower pH and hardness for those hard to grow plants and it also help with getting co2 into the water column. Everytime I use aquasoil I let the tank run for at LEAST 2weeks prior to adding anything especially fish. In those two weeks I do daily 20-50% water changes to help speed up the process of stabilization. Another thing is that Aquasoil was meant for a new tank set-up so it releases heavy ammonia on initial startup which is something else you want to watch out for.

After the two weeks the tank params usually come up significantly but still a bit lower then that of tap which is preferred in most cases and as time goes by the soil has less effect on the params. Personally all of the above is wanted out of the soil.


......Spot, I really don't think that petricola is gonna like it in that tank.

[Mzungu]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the syno cat. I agree with ek. But, I know you probably have a few other places he can go!

[Spot86t]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

I think I'll pull all of them out for now and just leave the filters running until things stabilize  :(.  

I was thinking the cats would like it more if I put the gravel on top of the soil.  I would like it too.  It looks 'unfinished' with the soil on top.  The raphael's stay in the driftwood - in a couple of fair crevices.  I don't think the ropefish likes the soil either, but he's going to get gravel and a cave and I'll see how he acts then.  He (she?) swims around a LOT now with no hidey-hole to stay in - just the plants to hide in.  He settles in the dwarf lily which is prety thick.

you're right Mzungu - I have some other tanks they'll be fine in  :)

[eklikewhoa]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

The most hated thing about "layering" substrates is that it ends up mixing itself together and looking like crap.

Find some plants that will cover the ground like lawn instead of using gravel.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Back in the old days we used to put a layer of newspaper between the layers of substrates.  Kept the layers prety and the plants just grew throuth the paper.

However by now I'm sure they are using some new improved ink that may not be fish friendly.....
Anybody out ther in the newspaper buisness ?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

I think Ramius worked for the chronicle but I don't think he dealt with the actual papers.

What I have seen people use to separate powersand from aquasoil is the window screen netting.

[Spot86t]

Re: planted - ph stabilization

Ek:  I agree - my previous planted with the fluorite topped with black gravel looked really neat til the first vacuum.  When I broke down that tank, it was a real pita to separate the black gravel out.  Most of it got left with the fluorite.  Thanks for reminding me - I said then that I wouldn't do that again...  

Right now all I have for 'lawn' plant is some dwarf sag and small stuff like java fern.  I'd like to find a short grassy type stuff that doesnt go nuts like java moss.  Baby tears is really nice, but it's something I've not had much success with.  Is the soil why you think the petricola won't like it?  He's always cruising the tank often with the cory cats (he's the same size as them, only a little longer) - maybe he'd sit still if he liked the substrate?  

PhishPhreek:  Good idea about the paper - bet you're right about the ink tho.  :(
I haven't pulled anyone out yet, chems are as follows:

ammonia 0
pH at abut 6.6 (better than earlier)
KH at 40
GH at 25
everything else at 0