300 gal room divider wall aquarium update! please comment!

[peterp63]

I recently put my 300 gallon in service and it is absolutely beautiful and operating wonderfully.  It is a room divider that I built into the wall between my breakfast eating area and my family room (I will post pics shortly).  The only problem is that I JUST found out that my ProClear 300 wet/dry filter does not hold enough water for a power outage or maintenance event.  WHAT DO I DO????

My thoughts...

1. Increase the number of slits in the acrylic divider overflow cover.  This would reduce the level in the main tank that would end up in the sump in the event of a power outage.  (I really like the level as full as it is now though, plus that would be a big task and I would probably make it look uglier than heck)
2.  I'm pretty sure the Durso Standpipes are fully extended, but I can check this.  If not, fully extending them will keep a larger volume in the overflow... wait, no it won't.  Will it?  It shouldn't matter how tall the Dursos are, they are just for lowering the noise level of the water, right???
3.  My dad (mechanical engineer) suggested using solenoid valves that shut when the power shuts off.  Simple, but not really what I was thinking....
4. Drill a hole in the acrylic sump and route the water to additional capacity (rubbermaid box of some sort).
5. Not much room for it, but I could place the entire sump in a larger rubbermaid box if I could find something with the right dimensions.

QUESTIONS: Do the Dursos, slowly leak at the fitting connections?  I'm wondering if I eventually get this corrected and a power outage lasts several hours, would the Durso standpipes slowly leak most of the water down into the sump from the overflow????

ONE MORE: I am also using an Eheim 2260 that returns via reverse flow undergravel filter.  I am concerned that there is not enough flowing through this filter due to the pressure drop through the RF UGF.  I drilled 1/16" holes every inch all the way through the 3/4" PVC and it came to like over 500 holes and the cross-sectional area of all of these holes combined is much larger than the 1" return line, so I thought this would be plenty.  Now that it is in service I am skeptical about the flow rate.  I know it's sucking pretty good because I can see the suction screen pulling stuff in, but with the small diameter holes potentially plugging and the gravel on top of the UGF I just need some peace of mind.  Any suggestions on how to measure flow here??

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!  I will post pics shortly.

[peterp63]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/peterp63/AquariumProject02

[eklikewhoa]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Make sure your output is not reverse siphoning in the event of a power outage.
Raise the durso as high as you can.
Keep the minimal amount of water you possibly can in the wet/dry, if you are running a submerged pump might be time to consider drilling that wet/dry and use an external.
Solenoid would work but what would you do when that malfunctions and what will power it? If you are gonna use a always on solenoid then that will greatly increase the heat since those things run hot and what if that fails that way? The return pump is gonna flood the tank.

The Durso should be a tight fit which would keep it from leaking...either that or change your bulkhead to a threaded one and thread the durso into it.

The 2260 is probably barely pushing water out of your UFJ's.....I would probably look into something much more powerful!

hit up delock for a new pump....he has those panworlds.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Looking at your under stand space....I would have built it around a 100-135g tank and used that as a wet/dry.....either that or get the pro-clear 400....


I have the PC-300 on my 125g....

[peterp63]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Thanks Ek.  Just posted more pics on that same website.  My 2260 has an upgraded pump (634 gph).  Still not a whole lot of flow, but I just want to make sure that there is somewhere around 600 or so flowing through the filter.  That would be okay with me.  The 2260 is full of activated carbon only.  The wet/dry and RF UGF and Eheim 2028 should take care of my bio load.  Also, have a UV sterilizer on the 2028 return (Turbo Twist 6x).

[eklikewhoa]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Well if you are fell all is good then all is good.

[peterp63]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Umm... ok.  I just want to see if the pump is doing what it should.  How hard would it be to drill my Proclear 300 an route to more capacity?  Just use a hole-saw?

[Zulaab]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Okie Peter... with wet dry's the number one way for water to return back into the sump on a power failure is syphon done by the return line.

#1 thing to do is raise the output line to be barely or just above the water line.  -- Fail the system and see how much water comes back into the wet dry by your durso pipes.  Lower the pipe just enough that its "JUST" under water, start your system again and then fail it.   See if this resolves the problem, else see below.

When I start a wet dry for the first time, ie after like a complete cleaning where I take the system out of the cabinet to clean it.
(I done this once in 9 months of owning the system because the bottom of the wet dry had so much crud, it was making a bad mess)

I add water back into the tank just enough that water starts coming into the wet dry.  I STOP FILLING THE TANK.
I let the pipes run dry.  There should not be a lot of water in the sump at this point..  Start your pump letting it pump the water out of the system.  If not enough then assist the pump by adding just enough water into the sump to let it complete the cycle.  Your pump should produce cavitation.   As soon as the pump makes the wet dry cycle, cut the pump off.  At this point see where the sump fills back up.  If it start getting close to overflowing, you need to cut the water flow off by killing the return (ie lift it out of the water -- as soon as air comes into the system it should break.)  Continue playing with the level until you are completely happy with the setup.

If you need assistance with this I will be happy to come over and assist you with this.   Unlike EK I believe your Pro/Clear 300 is fine.  You just have to make some adjustments in regards to your return line.

[Delock]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

The pro clear is a little small for your tank. it seem you have the length but not the depth need.  I would keep an eye out for a larger one...I think someone has one sitting in there garage lol

the 2260 is not rated for a pressure return. You ugf is causing your 2260 to greatly lose head pressure and it will not push the water thru the ugf as you need it. you will only feel water at the beginning of the ugf and the pressure will die off 1/3 the way down


tank is looking nice...I was wondering what happen to you

on the standpipe....raise them to the highest level.

[Zulaab]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Okie I am looking at the pictures (Delock and EK) please look at picture 15 (I know its side ways and that makes it hard) but if you notice the return pipes are WAY DOWN into the tank... they are not hitting the surface at all which means those pipes have to clear down in case of failure.

Peter raise them so they are all just under the surface   You want them to suck in air as soon as possible to stop the reverse drain when you have a power failure.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

I never said the PC-300 was not enough....just stated that I would have gone so much bigger which would have kept a thread like this from forming....I also remember stating in the previous thread or pm that the 2260 would not be ideal for this UGJ set-up.....well look see now....the 2260 is not working as imagined with the UGJ.

Some people ask for help....some of those people have the answer they want to hear before the question is ever asked.

[Delock]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

well not to knock peter....but I felt the same way about the 2260 and the ugf

Raise the standpipe Peter lol

[eklikewhoa]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

all I can say is raise the drain of the durso/standpipe......make sure your output breaks the reverse siphon as soon as possible.

[peterp63]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

I don't know if the 2260 is being hurt by the UGF or not.  I was asking if there was a good way to measure flow to see if it was operating okay as far as volumetric flow through the pump itself (not including the UGF).  I'm hoping the holes are small enough that the water can make it all of the way to the end and even circulate within the flow loop that I created.  Who knows....

As for the wet/dry, I will definitely raise up the return lines like Zulaab has suggested.  I can't remember if they are above the water line at the level of the divider cover or not.  Good catch if it is, Zu.  Will moving the standpipes up and down really do anything?  The water level in the overflow will change, but the amount of water that is sent to the wet/dry during a shutdown should not, right?????

Thanks for all of the help... this is really great stuff.  I need a fix ASAP!!!  Or before a power outage.  Right now I'm screwed if something happens......

[Zulaab]

Re: YIKES!!!! NEED HELP QUICK!!!!! New 300!!!

Your correct... the height of the durso pipes lowers or raises the amount of splashing that occurs from the water coming over the overflow.
You need to work on getting return pipes raised as high as they will go without breaking the water surface so that in the event of a power failure they will suck in air long before they drain 10% of your tank into your wet/dry