Controlled overstock cichlids

[mistahoo]

What Mark is trying to say is simple (Mark if im wrong PM me and yell at me). Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
A fish store generally has more filtration in there aquariums than most general
hobbyist. They also turn over fish more often than an aquarium owner. It's just
like what I said earlier in my first post, you need more filtration. In saying that,
perhaps what should have been said is that is can be done with enough
filtration. But it’s not right to do. Your fish will suffer health wise, grow
and color will not happen like it should or would, and (not that it’s a bad
thing) but a heavier devotion towards water changes, water quality, etc. will
have to be maintained. If the OP can’t do that, then they shouldn’t keep that
many fish. If the OP can eventually devote money and time to (daily to every
two day) water changes and can see to it that the fish at least have good water
quality fine. However just because a fish eats and seems healthy doesn’t mean
it is.

Good input. That was what I was trying to say in a couple of earlier posts. I did mention that the OP would need dedication just as a couple of other members have noted. I just failed to mention the bit about LFS having over filtrated tanks but most of us know that already and for those who didn't, you just cleared it up.

Not to take sides or anything (because believe me my 72 gallon is over stocked
but I can manage mine), but take your 100 gallon for example (I’m not trying to
take you down a peg or anything so don’t take it the wrong way). But with your
fish stock the fish will never obtain the highest quality of life, health or
care. Even with your upgrade you don’t have the space to properly house them.
It is to a 180 if I remember correctly. You own fish that need in excess of 500
gallons of water for a full grown specimen. So what will you do? I would hope
the answer is devoting the proper amount of time and care they need and
eventually find a proper home for them.

No harm dealt. I do realized that just as your tank is overstocked, so is mine but with much larger fish. I have a larger upgrade in mind after the 180gal, but since it's there, why not? As for time and care spent, I think the fish love me much more than their previous owner and are starting to recognize me, which I find is pretty neat!

I'm a young guy, but I have been raised into this world. I’ve been doing this
longer than some of the old guys. I’ve setup and sold more tanks than most ever
will in there time in this hobby. It's not a hobby it’s a life style to me. I
have seen it on a few signatures before and must agree with it. If you take one
the responsibility of a living creature, then it is your responsibility to see
to it that it receives the best care it can have.

Can I condone or condemn what some do? No, all I can do is ask that they put themselves in that situation and think how they'd feel. I also ask that people do research before jumping in to the unknown.

Well said. Responses are in red

[makatak123]

If you have a overstocked tank you want to have really good filtration.

[Johnsbra123]

Well would I be okay, not having to change the water every two days, if I have 5 cichlids?

[barrettsline]

Again it all depends on your filtration, The total bio load, how much you feed, how much waste is produced, and how much your filter actually can remove from the water. A filter only can remove so much. While a 30 gallon filter its in its name ok for a 26 gallon aquarium, I would have to recommend a larger filter. I used to run a 2217 on my 30 gallon fry tank. At one point I had lots of fry in that tank and was feeding heavily with daily water changes.

Another thing you need to consider is this. What is your decor setup? how much substrate do you have and what type. it doesnt take long to take up space in a small aquarium. take my 210 for example. Go find my thread on my 210 gallon and look at everything in it. before fish, Ive already taken up about 30-35 gallons of space with sand, rock, driftwood, and the built in overflow.

[mistahoo]

What filter do you have on your tank? How much do you feed? What are the 5 cichlids?

I have a 60gal rated filter (I think?) on that 10gal I linked a picture to. I also have a rigged powerhead to help break down waste so my filter can filter it better. I feed two times a day and I still do water changes every 2 days (3 days if I get lazy). I could let the tank go for longer (say a week), but I'd rather not. Compared to my 30ish fish to your 5 fish, I'd say you could do weekly water changes, but just as Barrettsline said,

Again it all depends on your filtration, The total bio load, how much you feed, how much waste is produced, and how much your filter actually can remove from the water. A filter only can remove so much.

Where the filtration lacks in removing waste, is where you come in. Water changes will be required regardless of your filtration.

[barrettsline]

Where the filtration lacks in removing waste, is where you come in. Water changes will be required regardless of your filtration.

+1

[mnemenoi]

The best step to determine your water change schedule is a Nitrate test kit. Begin testing your water after a water change and determine what level (30ppm or whatever) you deem to be the point you wish to change your water and how much is changed. Then retest and see what your values have shifted to. Continue doing this and you should develop a schedule based on average numbers. This will help in determining your water change schedule and knowing the general values based upon previous tests. I try and do this again anytime the stocking changes or enough time has passed that I believe a retest is in order to verify my original schedule is still accurate in Nitrate exportation.

[allysangels]

Calling someone a newb isn't necessarily a derogatory. In this case it's a fact. I've been keeping fish since 1968 and there are people around this site with a year or less under their belts in this hobby who are self-styled experts and "gurus". Please.
8 labs in a 26 gal is eventually gonna turn out bad for the fish; and after all, isn't that why we're in this? To keep our fish as happy and healthy and keep their conditions optimum for them?
Eventually these fish are gonna become sexually active. Ever kept labs that are sexually active adult? If the subs can't get away from the alpha he will kill them. He may kill the females as well. Yes, with enough filtration and water changes you can keep these fish alive. But they need room and hiding places to get away from each other; to SWIM for pete's sake. Would you put a dog in a kennel carrier for its whole life? It can live but what is its quality of life?

You're right, to disperse aggression, it's sometimes recommended to stock a Malawian tank heavily. However, there's a big difference between doing so with multiple species in a large tank and keeping one species in something that is gonna wind up lookin' like a cage match.

Mark

all im saying is that as a self proclaimed expert and an ex-moderator, you should know better. OP was looking for advice, we all bring our own cards to the table. I'm sure you made mistakes in your many years, why not simply be helpful and if people choose not to listen oh well. bottom line they will do what they want regardless. if you dont have anything nice to say... ive already taught my 6 year old that lesson.

[wesleydnunder]

all im saying is that as a self proclaimed expert and an ex-moderator, you should know better. OP was looking for advice, we all bring our own cards to the table. I'm sure you made mistakes in your many years, why not simply be helpful and if people choose not to listen oh well. bottom line they will do what they want regardless. if you dont have anything nice to say... ive already taught my 6 year old that lesson.

I'm a little confused here:

A: I've never proclaimed myself an expert, just a lifelong fish nerd.
B. I told the OP that 8 labs shouldn't go in a 26 gal tank
C. The arguement I was having was with another member, not the OP
D. When I named mistahoo a noob, that wasn't the OP

Mark

[armthehomeless]

I have a 26 gallon and I want to over stock it. What is a good amount to stock? I was thinking Mbuna with labs and about 8 in total.

There seems to be some debate about this. Here are my thoughts:

First of all, yellow labs are a type of mbuna. I wouldn't start a cichlid tank with 8 african cichlids in a 26g unless . . . unless nothing. Just don't do it unless it is a temporary fry growout. Overstocking tanks still requires a minimum size. Mbuna are territorital and need space to call their own and space to get away. Having alot of fish is a way of making certain that one fish doesn't get singled out. Many people talk about doing this with the more aggressive species... such as pseudotropheus, petrochromis, and tropheus. Can rules be broken? Certainly. Have I broken them? Yes. Would I ever recommend someone starting out to do this? No.

A 26 gallon tank isn't big enough for most types of cichlids. Shell Dwellers and apistogramma are two types that I think would work well right off.

When listening to advise from others, consider several things. First, we are all individuals -- some have been in the hobby longer than others. We ALL have different experiences. See what the majority of people say . . .see how many posts they have . . . look when they joined. These can help serve as indicators. Secondly, do your own research. The web is a wonderful place. Lastly, take everything with a grain of salt -- it brings out the flavor.

I say just do a shrimp tank.