Ammonia issues

[Crush]

Iv never had ammonia issues like I have right now. Tank has cycled since iv gotten it two months ago. Week before last my water specs were great, no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. Last week I planted 4 bundles of hg, 4 bundles of anacharis with the plants I already had. Same day I added flourish tabs. I tested my water with strips the next day and found the nitrites were on the rise so I did a 75% water change, tested again 20min after and nitrites were still high about 3ppm. Thought my test strips were giving false readings so I went out yesterday and got an api master test kit, ammonia was at 2ppm, nitrites 4ppm, nitrates at 10ppm I think. Right away I did a 25% water change and added topfin ammonia remover and tested afterwards, that brought my ammonia down to 1ppm. Added some bacteria just incase I may have accidentally killed them off somehow. Ran my powerhead with a makeshift filter (1liter bottle stuffed with floss and z-carb) overnight. Checked water this morning it's still at 1ppm ammonia so I added more api ammonia remover and tested to .5ppm. Had to stop there and get to work. Water is clear. I think it's has something to do with the tabs. Just yesterday morning I got rid of a lot of fish to fish gallery so I don't think it's the fish as iv had the same amount in that tank since I started the tank. Iv got a couple of tabs left I think I'll experiment with tap water and see what readings I get. Also wonder if those tabs may be harmful to the good bacteria.

[Crush]

So yesterday I get home after work and check my 60g ammonia levels, it's at .25ppm so I add a little more ammonia remover. Before celebrating that my ammonia levels have fallen I check my nitrites. As expected they are high, idk the numbers now but it was enough to do a small water change roughly 5%. It's almost like my tank is cycling for the first time which makes me think I killed off or removed most of my bacteria not long after the initial cycle. I did do an experiment with the flourish tabs, I filled a 1g pitcher of tap water and tested ammonia levels without adding anything I got .25ppm then I added one flourish tab to the pitcher and stirred it for a few seconds and tested the water after 5 min, with flourish tab in one gallon of pure tap water I got a reading of .5ppm. If you think about it that's not bad considering 1gallon versus 60gallons then again the test could have been a fluk. Either way lesson learned, I need to adjust how I start a larger tank and be more patient. I treated this 60g like I do with my 10g oh and don't let my daughter feed the fish. I think she may have put more than she was supposed to while I was at work last week. Luckily I only lost 1 neon tetra and 1 ghost shrimp.

[troy tucker]

The tabs should make nitrates to go up. but more often the water from the tape is the prob.. Also 2ppm or 4ppm is not a high number for either. If ammonia passes 10ppm now that's starting to get high.
The tape water has lots of chloramines. This will show up in your test as ammonia. If you use a remover, Well it doesn't really remove it. It makes it harmless. It will still show up in your test as ammonia but it is harmless. Some times you have to trust what you use for conditioning the water.
You have pretty good numbers for a new tank.

[morpheus]

generally those chemicals just change ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (NH4+). the latter is harmless to fish, but as troy mentioned, will still show up on your test strips when present. usually those chemicals are a band-aid....so something is driving up your ammonia. with all the rain in recent weeks, water companies do dose the water supply. so you could test your tap to see if ammonia registers in there.

the flourish tabs should be adding in nitrates since live plants consume those as fertilizer. people also so dose the tank with stability or something in newer tanks to keep that bacterical concentration up. your tank may still be cycling. i have seen it take a few months.

basic background questions:

you said 60 gal tank
what kind of filtration are running?
how much/often do you feed?
what is in the tank (you mentioned neons and shrimp)?

[Ken B]

As Troy says, ammonia remover really just temporarily locks up the ammonia. So that is a very temporary measure and that ammonia will be released at some time in the future causing swings in ammonia levels. If it is practical, anybody with tap water that has chloramines and other undesirables should set up a large container with a foam filter or two. Don't use any chemicals in this container. Don't even use a dechlorination agent because the chlorine will dissipate naturally. Just run the foam filter or some other kind of biological filter until the water exhibits acceptable parameters. The various chemicals are ok for temporary situations but for a stable aquarium environment, it is much better to use water that has already been naturally processed.

I think this is where a lot of people run into trouble, relying on chemical agents instead of processing the water naturally.

[troy tucker]

Aging water is something use old times know about. It's easy to age water but most people don't have the space for a large tank of water just sitting around. I aged water for years. The water co. started using chloramine. I started using chemicals. They have come a long way and gotten much better. Some day I will get a carbon bottle. then I will start aging again.

[Crush]

I'm using api master test kit for testing instead of the strips.
filtration is marinland penguin 350 w/bio wheels along with an aqua-tech 20-40 (pretty much a marinland penguin but without the bio-wheels and half the size of penguin 350). Also using as a polisher (as needed) a marinland powerhead with a "hooper" stuffed with z-carb and floss.
was feeding twice a day but now iv gotten rid of most of my mollies.
i have Dalmatian mollies, neon tetras, glow light tetras, endlers guppies, White Cloud Mountain minnows, ghost shrimp, amano shrimp, a couple of lobsters. For Pete sake I have aquarium A.D.D.....lol

[troy tucker]

Crush, Your numbers are really not that bad. As your tank ages it will become more stable.
Use your test kit to set up water change schedule. It's pretty easy to do. Start by doing a big water change. 50% or more. test the water and write it down. next day same Write it down. Do this every day at the same time every day. Your numbers should be close to the same everyday till one day they will spike. That's your Q to do water change. How ever many day it took to get that spike. One day less is when you want to do your water changes. Also the spike can change with over feeding and over ferts. So keep an eye on that too.

[ptran]

Aging water is something use old times know about. It's easy to age water but most people don't have the space for a large tank of water just sitting around. I aged water for years. The water co. started using chloramine. I started using chemicals. They have come a long way and gotten much better. Some day I will get a carbon bottle. then I will start aging again.

Troy, why need to age water if you had a carbon bottle?

[troy tucker]

It can help PH prob.
I do SA.

[ptran]

Okay, I see. Thanks.

[Crush]

I never wrote down what the water specs are before but now I will till I get used to this tank. Checked this morning and ammonia was at zero, nitrites were at 5ppm, can't remember what my nitrates are. PH has dropped a bit to about 6.6. I wrote everything down at home. This morning I woke up to two dead amano shrimp.

[troy tucker]

When I set up a new tank the is the best way to know when water changes are needed. I write the numbers down because I can't remember from day to day. My 55g pleco tank has the largest bio loud. It will go 10 day and then it will start to spike. My bigger tank go 18 days But I do my water changes one a week 50%. So I never worry about my numbers after the set up.

[ptran]

I (most of the time) do 50% wc weekly and never test my water.

[Crush]

I did monthly water changes on my 10 gallon and tested it twice a month maybe. I got so used to the routine with that tank I really didn't have to put much thought into it.