Ruh-roh!

[eklikewhoa]

It doesn't matter what variant it is. That's like saying "oh, I didn't think this sp. giant plakat betta would kill another male cause it's a different sp.".

I think the history speaks for itself for the most part when it comes to these fish and aggression. Unless you are balling off the wall I don't see someone forking over this kind of money for these fish without some sort of research or knowledge. You have also contradicted yourself, that many BGs in a 280g is probably just as cruel as the guy intentionally fighting the two, Now if you said you have bought a piece of land, rented a backhoe and will be setting up for a group that large then IMO it would be a different story.

[SunnyHouTX]

Some would also say that you keeping a BG in a small 6fter tank is animal cruelty.

Lets try to keep personal morals and such from overwhelming what is actually going on in the hobby.

Very true, and still some others consider keeping fish in tanks period animal cruelty. So I guess you're the morality police asking me to throttle back on a critique of one situation that you yourself has not seen? Nga puhleez...

[Darth Coqui]

BG's are beauties and I can imagine they pack a good punch.
As far as understock goes, I currently have in a 135 gal:
1 WC Ubwari - 5.75"
6 F1 Kipilis - 4.25"
6 F1 Sangala - 2"

Running this setup for a while now.
No casualties nor signs there of and that is under stock compared to most folks opinion.

soooo....!?

However, I got something up my sleeve with a few Petro variants and hopefully a bigger tank.

I do have the Macros antagonizing the Ubwari, but that is just tag your it games.

Hope this helps.

Frankie

[SunnyHouTX]

I guess I am not taking into consideration intentional understocking. Yes, that's bad, overall picture or variant specific. I just don't think the guy who started the thread in Sweden knew that he was understocked. When it comes to BGs, I don't really think that anybody knows that the safe lower limit is for stocking a tank. If I had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$, I'd love to get about 25 - 30 of them for my 280. At a certain point, it does become scientific so that knowledge is acquired to better the hobby.

[eklikewhoa]

Some would also say that you keeping a BG in a small 6fter tank is animal cruelty.

Lets try to keep personal morals and such from overwhelming what is actually going on in the hobby.

[eklikewhoa]

OK, I agree that my analogy is flawed. But...

See, saying that Bailey will kill all the fish in the tank is also wrong. Stock levels have a lot to do with this, among many factors. Sadly, so far I have not seen anybody stock a tank tightly when it comes to BGs. They were ignorant to what stock levels do to mitigate aggression and yes they should have done more research.

You can commend that guy all you want, but it is what it is. Animal cruelty pure and simple. I guess that is not a part of my hobby. You're right, some ppl get off watching that type 'o cr@p as a part of their hobby. Sad...

So you are saying a person knowingly purchasing and under stocking a tank with these fish is not grouped in the same and not considered animal cruelty? If you knew what the outcome would be and the history has not proven otherwise then yeah, there isn't a chance your outcome will be different but you will still know and expect that you will suffer the same fate, that is KNOWINGLY putting the fish in a tank to see them fight and watch them kill each other. Regardless of what type of fish or what variant, dude it's the same thing.

I'm not being specific to variants, I'm looking at the overall picture here.

[SunnyHouTX]

I didn't think it was Bailey per se. Just his KIND.

Yup. The owner of those fish quickly learned his lesson and now has a tank full of fish. He didn't sit in front of his tank popcorn and handycam on the ready to catch all the carnage.

[SunnyHouTX]

I have seen many people post up questions about "would this many work" and they get answers that fall along the lines of "they will kill each other".

If that was your case then, Yes, I would group you as the same.

Being ignorant is no excuse. I actually commend the guy for not beating around the bush and coming forth and posting his ill intentions.

also your analogy is flawed.

It would be more like, "can I keep this vicious bear with my family lab", answer from the masses and online resources say, "hell no". Well I'm gonna go ahead and try cause I can't afford to house or provide for it any other way.

That sir would be the same as.... "I know the vicious bear will eat the family lab but I want to see it".

OK, I agree that my analogy is flawed. But...

See, saying that Bailey will kill all the fish in the tank is also wrong. Stock levels have a lot to do with this, among many factors. Sadly, so far I have not seen anybody stock a tank tightly when it comes to BGs. They were ignorant to what stock levels do to mitigate aggression and yes they should have done more research.

You can commend that guy all you want, but it is what it is. Animal cruelty pure and simple. I guess that is not a part of my hobby. You're right, some ppl get off watching that type 'o cr@p as a part of their hobby. Sad...

[aquabee]

No ma'am. Chances of Bailey doing this type of thing are slim. Not saying it won't, just unlikely.

I didn't think it was Bailey per se. Just his KIND.

[SunnyHouTX]

So I got on this thread late but my very first guess was gonna be... BAILEY!

No ma'am. Chances of Bailey doing this type of thing are slim. Not saying it won't, just unlikely.

[eklikewhoa]

also your analogy is flawed.

It would be more like, "can I keep this vicious bear with my family lab", answer from the masses and online resources say, "hell no". Well I'm gonna go ahead and try cause I can't afford to house or provide for it any other way.

That sir would be the same as.... "I know the vicious bear will eat the family lab but I want to see it".

[eklikewhoa]

I have seen many people post up questions about "would this many work" and they get answers that fall along the lines of "they will kill each other".

If that was your case then, Yes, I would group you as the same.

Being ignorant is no excuse. I actually commend the guy for not beating around the bush and coming forth and posting his ill intentions.

[SunnyHouTX]

Quoc, when I got my 230, I unwittingly put 19 petros in it, 9 Moshi (around 3" - 4"), 9 Polys (around 5") and 1 Famula Chimba. Very soon, I lost 5 Moshi within 2 wks before I realized my folly and added 14 more Poly when they came up for sale right around that time. No more deaths since then. Surely you're not saying that I'm doing the same thing as this guy who puts a visibly underfed BG with a Moshi by themselves in a tank? No sir. You say that I understocked to see the carnage? GTFO dude. What this dude did and understocking are way different. It's like watching your dog fight the neighbor's dog because he got away and another dude setting a fight bred bully pit on a family lab. Understocking a tank is done in ignorance usually, which includes those who do so to piecemeal their colony. What this guy did was deliberate.

[aquabee]

[aquabee]

So I got on this thread late but my very first guess was gonna be... BAILEY!