PICS! 20 long, dwarf compressiceps

[aquabee]

Thanks guys! I sure hope it turns out well the second time around.

[barrettsline]

B...... I'm at a loss. When you get back you'll be able to get it all fixed. And it will be better than before.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.532005,-95.157769

[Complexity]

Sorry to hear about the other pleco and white cloud. Plecos are normally pretty hardy so having the second one die further implicates the wood as the culprit. I'm so glad to hear the rest of the white clouds are doing well. Hopefully, the problems are behind you now. Keep us updated when you try to add more fish. We'll all be hoping for a good outcome for you.

[aquabee]

I found this discussion really interesting, since I have never had to use bleach before. I wanted to thank you all for the input and the teaching. :)

A quick update... both plecos have kicked the bucket, and I lost one white cloud (I had a feeling it would go anyway cuz it got really skinny and weak). The remaining 6 are doing incredibly well. They're displaying normal behaviors and swimming like crazy and eating relatively well. When I get back from visiting my parents in Cali, I'll re-do the tank a little and perhaps attempt to use new pieces of wood. We'll see how things go. Once the tank/filters are re-done, I'll test with some new fish and once it's deemed safe, I have some pearly occies waiting for their new home... hopefully free of any and all contaminants.

Thanks again everyone for all your help and advice!!

[Complexity]

I have also used CLR to get rid of lime/mineral stains on a glass tank. I do the same as above.

I've used CLR, too, but that's when I'm very careful. I also use a vinegar rinse when I'm done. I've done it for decades without a problem. I prefer to use vinegar over CLR, though.

[RonR.]

Everytime I drain a glass tank and am ready to refill with new substrate or start over, I bleach my tank. I don't use full strength. I add about 1/4 cup of bleach to a 5 gal bucket and use a cloth to wipe the tank sides and bottom down. I rinse the tank several times and let it air dry. Any chlorine that's left will evaporate.

I have also used CLR to get rid of lime/mineral stains on a glass tank. I do the same as above.

[eklikewhoa]

Complexity is on point on several of their inputs. Doesn't leave much to add.

as for all the discussion about what's bad/good for a tank, There's tons of things in a household that'll wipe any tank clean so bleaching a running tank doesn't seem quite that horrible. I'd entertain that option any day actually when compared to the things out there that are MEANT for a tank in the terms of bandaging a problem like copper or the like.

I'd hit the bleach long before using copper but I see lots of people dump it in their tanks like nothing with live fish that have pretty much no problem and even hear others suggest things like that so I don't see much harm in anything being introduced to the tank.

[barrettsline]

One of the most enjoyable aspects of this hobby is that there is no single "right" way to go about it. There are a myriad of options from which we can all choose, from what kind of tank and fish we keep to how we choose to maintain them, as well as how we handle problems that arise. While there are a few things that are universally understood to be bad choices, such as using detergents and soaps, most things are simply options with no single right or wrong answer. We select among those options what best suits our needs at the time and change as our knowledge, experience, comfort level, and as our situations change.

What's most important is to share the large variety of options available so we can each learn from each other which will ultimately allow us to do what we each feel works best for us in our specific situations. To hamper that sharing of information would limit us all. The more we know, the more choices from which we can choose, the more we can make choices that work for each of us. We not only don't have to do the same things, but the fact that there are so many options is what makes this hobby so enjoyable for such a wide variety of people.

Complexity on this note I couldn't agree more. B, if nothing else, were here to make sure your problems go away and stay away!

[Complexity]

I don't think doing research will resolve the issue either way because there are a lot of opinions on all sides, including people who recommend using rubbing alcohol which is something I don't like to use. I think it's more a matter of what you're comfortable with. Wiping down a tank is needless unless you're trying to avoid using dechlorinator, or at least large amounts of dechlorinator, which some people prefer. I don't mind using dechlorinator. I use it liberally all the time. I have huge bottles of the stuff. So it comes down to a matter of preference.

All I'm saying is there's no reason to fear bleach. As long as you use the old, original bleach and use any method to remove it, it's perfectly safe and an effective way to sterilize a tank and equipment. Whether the bleach is put in contact with the various pieces as a unit or separately makes no difference as it's the same basic process. Direct contact of bleach on the item, rinse with water to remove the bulk of the bleach, and then use a method to ensure that any residual traces of the bleach are rendered harmless. It honestly does not matter how you go about it. It's all the same thing either way.

As to whether crud left inside hoses is a problem, that's true regardless of whether you use bleach or not. For example, I'm using H2O2 to kill the algae in my 90g tank. I'm using a combination of direct contact (squirting it directly onto the most affected areas) and whole tank method (using large enough quantities to filter throughout my entire tank, canisters, hoses, and all). H2O2 will kill the algae in the hoses which means I'll have that dead crud inside the hoses. I can take everything apart and clean the hoses, which I've done before. Or I can allow it to disintegrate into the water over time and remove it through water changes. In my current efforts, I'm doing the later option. However, this means I also need to clean out my canisters more frequently than normal to physically remove the crud they're picking up since this process is putting more dead algae crud into the water column which then gets filtered out by the canisters. Since my current goal is to target the phosphate levels, I'm opting to clean the crud out rather than allowing it to be broken down by the bacteria. But, again, this is simply an option among many I could choose.

One of the most enjoyable aspects of this hobby is that there is no single "right" way to go about it. There are a myriad of options from which we can all choose, from what kind of tank and fish we keep to how we choose to maintain them, as well as how we handle problems that arise. While there are a few things that are universally understood to be bad choices, such as using detergents and soaps, most things are simply options with no single right or wrong answer. We select among those options what best suits our needs at the time and change as our knowledge, experience, comfort level, and as our situations change.

What's most important is to share the large variety of options available so we can each learn from each other which will ultimately allow us to do what we each feel works best for us in our specific situations. To hamper that sharing of information would limit us all. The more we know, the more choices from which we can choose, the more we can make choices that work for each of us. We not only don't have to do the same things, but the fact that there are so many options is what makes this hobby so enjoyable for such a wide variety of people.

[barrettsline]

Complexity, I’m not arguing that the theory and concept are not sound. I also understand that not everyone is capable of performing a break down easily. Yes bleach is wonderful at all killing and removing contaminates. But I have to bring up that even in the links you posted, those who have done this, have done this with an empty aquarium or an aquarium with substrate only. They all mention removing everything. Placing everything in a bleach solution (including aquarium), draining, a heavy thorough rinsing, and wipe down, and repeat if the smell of bleach is present. Or if things are left in place, the same thing, with multiple rinses accompanied by large quantities of chlorine remover and air dry time. Both links said there are other and better ways of cleaning and removing contaminations. even just typing in "using bleach to clean an aquarium" the first results even state the is it safe but to remove everything, using a bleach solution comparable to yours, removing all bleach water from an aquarium and then filling, scrubbing, draining, then a wipe down with towels, and finally a sniff test. If there’s a hint of bleach those steps are to be repeated. Now can you modify those steps, I’m sure you can. But in the end everything I’ve read has either said to remove everything or to clean everything separately, if possible so that the repetition of filling, de-chlorinating, draining, and sniffing can be avoided. As far filters go, yes bleach can be used to clean them once all media has been removed, and any and all metal impeller shafts or metal moving parts have been removed. All hoses have to be rinsed and clean out with pipe cleaners, for the fact that yes the bleach has killed any algae inside of the hoses but it hasn’t scrapped it out so there is the possibility of contamination/ poisoning from the dead bleached material in the hose. I am skeptical on that, but again the theory of dead material contaminating is feasible.

For the sake of it I am going to do more research on it.

[Complexity]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?88205-replacing-substrate-and-sterilizing-aquarium&p=763476&viewfull=1#post763476

[Complexity]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2020871

[Complexity]

If the fish recover, I don't see any need for a breakdown. Their recover indicates that whatever was in the tank that caused the problems has been removed to a safe level.

barrettsline, I can appreciate that you wouldn't do what I would do. For me, tearing down a 72 gallon tank would not be feasible because I'm not physically able to do it by myself. So doing that would not only be much more time consuming, but require that I trouble others to help me. As it is, I can't even remove the rocks in my 90g tank to clean them which is why I'm having to use H2O2 in the tank to kill the BBA. Believe me, I'd much rather yank those rocks out, bleach the BBA, clean the crud that's under the rocks, and then put the rocks back in. But I can't. I physically can't.

However, the issue of whether there is any danger to putting bleach in a tank, while I hear your concerns, I know of many people who have done it and who recommend it. That's how I learned how to do it. Bleach is not a terrible product. It's like anything else, you simply need to know how to use it properly. This is why it's commonly used on aquariums with no ill effect.

It also depends on the person's goals. If all that's wanted is to clean a tank, then there's no need for bleach. Bleach is used only when a person wants to sterilize the tank (foregoing any algae issues). That's why I suggested it only as a last resort and only when sterilization is desired. To sterilize only part of the tank while not sterilizing other parts means that the pathogens are not killed. Any pathogens that remain may, if it's a bacteria or virus for example, repopulate the tank. The only way to be certain to completely kill it out is to do a full tank sterilization. Everything must be either sterilized or tossed.

It's okay that you're uncomfortable with doing it as you don't have to do it, but I hope you can understand that it's not some crazy idea I made up. Full tank sterilization with bleach is a common and safe practice.

[aquabee]

Wow! Lots of input from everyone. I really appreciate how helpful everyone has been. I can't do what I need to do for at least 7-10 days (except water changes) so that affords me some time to watch and wait. I just woke up and saw that the white clouds are swimming somewhat happily, and one even chased another one for a minute. This is as close to normal behavior as I've seen in a really long time. Chocolate white trim is still alive too.

Everything everyone has been saying about methods of bleaching sounds good to me. Since the fish seem to be recovering, I feel like I've gotten most of the contaminant out already (carbon, purigen, and water changes). I think I will end up bleaching the rocks only, and everything else including sand will be washed with very hot water. I'll replace all the filter media as well and supplement with Stability and seeded media, and if everyone continues to do well after that, then all's groovy. Again, I'll only do this if the fish continue to recover nicely. Anything less than that and I'm tearing down the tank. :furious:

[barrettsline]

The idea of running bleach through an assembled aquarium to me is terrible. As my statements have clearly said, selective bleaching is all that's needed. And why would you want to contaminate at extreme levels to only have turn around and completely have to flush with more declorinator and clean water than makes sense. Seems like a waste of materials and resources. And running it through my filter, would never happen. Then the risk of chlorine contamination to all my filter media. Corrosion to metal and moving parts. Then there's the time. In a half day turn around I can have my 72 gallon broken down completely cleaned with selective bleaching on only what needs to be, and back up and running with no issues of extreme contamination from chlorine that could harm my fish. Using clean tap water to heavily flush my substrate, filter, plants, and remove any and all contaminates with the safe levels of chlorine that are in tap water and can be more easily removed with chlorine remover to me just makes more sense and is safer and less detrimental.



Again opinions are opinions and to each his/her own. Believe i mean no offense, if it works for you cool. But i would never do it. selective bleaching and thorough rinsing with tap water is all that's needed in my opinion.


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