The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

[spyke1969]

I have had my 29 gal Eclipse up & running for a couple of years now but recently decided to go planted. So, on the Thanksgiving break I removed everything & loaded up the buckets w/ fish & plants that I had bought (and were not doing very much in my current set up). I had heard about using top soil as a substrate so I went that route (trying to be cheap). I lined the outside edge w/ the gravel mix that I had already been using, then filled in w/ the top soil straight out of the bag, topped w/ the rest of the gravel , added back the rocks , plants and added the piece of driftwood that I had just bought. I filled w/ water added conditioner a waited for a couple of days to let things settle down. My water was cloudy so I took a sample to lfs to have them check it before adding fish. They said that it was perfect. I came home & added fish. The next day fish started dropping. I took another sample to another lfs who also said that my water was perfect, so I told them about what I had done & what was happening. They suggested a 1/3 wc. Did it, the water cleared but I kept losing a fish a day. Test kits show water to be fine but fish beg to differ! So far I have lost 4- cards, 3- threadfins, 1- albino Cory, 1- rubber lipped pleco. Sorry for the long story but I wanted to be thorough.

[Ellen]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

Is the water still cloudy? The water might be fine chemically, but as long as it is cloudy, the fish aren't going to be able to breathe very well... If this is the case, do big water changes until it is clear again. As long as you don't change the temp. too much, you should be fine with that.

Another thing: how often did you change the water before you decided to change everything on Thanksgiving? Once a week? Once a month? If you didn't do regular water changes, the fish could have gotten used to living in dirty water and now the new water could be shocking their systems.

HTH,
Ellen

[spyke1969]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

It clouds up after a couple of days, I did a 1/3 wc on friday then again last night. I did 1/3 wc bi-weekly before. How big is a big wc?

[Ellen]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

If it's still clouding up, I'd do 50%-75% water changes everyday until it stops clouding up. If you're not comfortable with that, you could do them every other day. Is it a little cloudy on the first day and then more cloudy on the second or is there something (some fish or a powerhead) disturbing the dirt, causing it to cloud?

Ellen

[SCOTT]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

What?
Try more likely your fish are dying off due to phosphate poisoning. Most topsoils are high in phosphates, caused by a high iron content, which can be toxic. When using a topsoil substrate it is always a good idea to let the tank setup for a couple weeks or to do massive water changes, something on the order of 5 or 6 complete changes while agitating the soil before adding any fish. While this wont remove all the phosphates it will dilute them to the point where they will be beneficial to the plants but non-toxic to your fish. Depending on what type topsoil you are using you could also have pesticides. Another good reason to do massive water changes while agitating the substrate.

[Spot86t]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

I'd say first get the fish back into a clean bucket.  Obviously if the topsoil and driftwood are the only things different, so in my logic, one or the other (or both) is the problem.  Well, unless it's a really ugly piece of driftwood that scared the fish to death.  Seriously though, you can't only count on chem tests - the obvious is that something is definately wrong with the water whether or not it's showing in a test.  

(Now I'm beginning to wonder about that chunk of driftwood I put in my 55gallon last nite...)

Many shelf topsoils come with fertilizer in them.  This may or may not be stated on the bag - sometimes they're in the form of things that won't show on standard aquarium water tests but they are still toxic to fish (but great for plants).  It may be too late though, if it's something that has done internal damage to your fishies.  

I've got an outdoor pond, and have heard to never ever use peat moss or potting soil in it if I have fish - don't remember if it meant fish in general or just koi.  I've got koi and goldfish.  Forget where I read that, but I worry about it so the only thing I use in it are the schulz aquatic soil (it looks like cat litter, but it has no clay) which specifically says on the bag that its safe for fish.  I automatically applied that knowledge to my fish tanks when I decided I only wanted real plants in them.  I have flourite in my 20 gallon tank with a layer of black gravel on top of it, and pool filter sand and shell in my 55 gallon.  The other tanks have either standard gravel or argonite in them.  My plants seem to be doing great in the flourite and in gravel, no clue how the sand will do since I just set that up this weekend.  it was cheap though - much less than the flourite - and far easier to rinse too!

Good luck to you and your fish!

[spyke1969]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

I used Happi-gro top soil , It looks good for a day or so then it clouds back up, nothing is disturbing the subsrtate. I will start w/ the big wc's.
Stuid cheapo newbee mistake!

[Ellen]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

I can't find anything about that particular topsoil online. Do you still have the bag? Is there anyway to post a picture of it?

Everybody makes mistakes, you're not alone!!

It might be best to go ahead a cut your losses, do the whole thing again with some of the Schultz aquatic soil (like Spot said) or something else that is okay for aquariums. I can't find the aquatic soil around here, and it might be more available in the spring anyways. I use Soilmaster Select, which is fired clay intended for baseball fields. I got mine at a Lesco. I paid $20 for a 50 lb bag. You would have enough for your 29 gallon + a few more.  

Ellen

[Spot86t]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

Just fyi...

The Schultz stuff can be found at Lowes in the pond section for I think 6.99 or 9.99 a bag (about a 10 lb bag)  it's kinda chunky (just like old fashioned cat litter) and I haven't tried it in a fish tank - just in the pond for the lilies and such.  Petsmart has the same stuff but it costs more there.  It requires rinsing or it will cloud but it's not too hard to rinse.
I think it's ceramic based.  I'd have to check the bag to find out for sure since it's been a while since I read it.

[spyke1969]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

I am going to do the wc's for a while & see how it goes. Thanks to all for the input!

[Mzungu]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

If you don't mind, like Ellen asked, do you have any more info about the "happi-gro?" All I could find while searching was something called "Happygro," which I'm pretty sure isn't what you used. Just for future reference!  

[spyke1969]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

[eklikewhoa]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

what are the contents?

[spyke1969]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

It doesnt list any, everything seems better since I started 1/3 wc every other day.

[jbicb3]

Re: The rest of my fish want help now before its to late!!

Excerpt from a zoning meeting:

Mr. Ken All, Executive Vice President of Hope Happi Gro, said, "Our only business is the manufacture of mulches, the soil products and the rock products that you see in the garden centers. We bring in bark from the sawmills, screen it and divide it into 3 different items. Two of them we bag and the third product we mix with our soils and do our bagging. The soil mix is basically the fines out of the bark along with local products that we use; it maybe top soil, cow manure or any organic material. We add no fertilizers or chemicals to our products.

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