coral only

[myjohnson]

Agreed, but you know this nga don't have a Skimmer.

[eklikewhoa]

probably not, that's why I mentioned to drop money up front and save the hassle in the end.

[rage]

The die off in the sand/LR is what boost the stabilization of the tank. Not everything dies off and what does will fuel the live beneficial bacteria and will get it up to par for stocking your tank.

This has always been my perception of "Live Rock" and the use of it on initial set up, other than that it's just overpriced ripoff since water logged rock will be much heavier and will bring the cost up so in the end you've paid for dirty water.

Earlier you recommended buying established live rocks and skip the long cycle time.
Are you now saying those rocks are a big rip-off?

Another thing: Die-offs and how fast a skimmer can pull them out are all relative and changing. You can not say get established live rocks, buy a big skimmer and you can stock a tank in a few days.

[eklikewhoa]

The die off and establish rocks is what jump starts the tank.
My comment about ripoff is directed towards MJ, if you plan on buyiing live rock and waiting the month or several months as others have recommended I would prefer to buy dry rock since you will be waiting anyways you would be essentially "curing and making your own live rock" which defeats the point of buying live rock or rather, water logged rock which adds weight when put on the scale.

BB needs a food source and somehow to keep NH3 and NO2 from suffocating off the BB. To buy live rock, which is just rock with bb and water. If you plan on buy LR and then suffocating it off with ammonia dosing it defeats the point and you've just overpaid for wet rock. The point of dosing ammonia is to increase the BB colony to support the bio-load intended for the tank am I not correct? So if you dose to the point of say 100 fish then once the nitrogen cycle completes in the large amounts of dosing would that not mean you could add 100 fish to the tank? Now to keep a tank bare with just rock would be considered "fishless cycling" so why not just save money on the rock and get more for your money and get dry rock. There's the "RipOff" explanation.

For your comment about my LR and skimmer suggestion, If you pay the extra money for wet rock which the sole selling point is being "live with bb" would that not be what you want in your tank to consume and process the nitrogen cycle which is what allows stocking of a tank? Now the skimmer does what? Skim excess nutrients and waste from the tank right? Now add the two together and what do you get?

of course you would have to monitor when the tank stabilizes after the skimmer settles in but technically it wouldn't take several months like the others suggest. I've used this method on 3 different reef tanks, 1 macro algae wave tank and a FOWLR tank and I've stocked the tank a few days after and continued to stock at random (I has impulse disorder and like buying and seeing a well stocked tank) and never had a problem or anything die due to not having a "cycled tank" in the sense others proclaim.

[eklikewhoa]

Earlier you recommended buying established live rocks and skip the long cycle time.
Are you now saying those rocks are a big rip-off?

Another thing: Die-offs and how fast a skimmer can pull them out are all relative and changing. You can not say get established live rocks, buy a big skimmer and you can stock a tank in a few days.

If I'm reading your post wrong please clarify.

[barberking12]

Agreed, but you know this nga don't have a Skimmer.

i dont have nothing but the tank nga thats why im asking for advice

[rage]

I don't doubt that you may have been able to stock 1 or 2 tanks fairly quickly but that is not true each and every time. It depends on your tank, your live rocks, your skimmer ...

1) Live rocks have bacterias, macros, and other growths on them. How much depends on the size of the rocks, how long they have been in the previous tank and its stocking level ...
These living organism live if the rocks are kept wet and they die if the rocks are dried off. Again, how much die-off changes with different cases.
A little die-off fuels the growth of bacterias, yes, but a lot of die off can not be consumed by the bacterias and your tank can get a spike in ammonia and nitrite, nitrates. These are all changing.

2) Can a big skimmer pull all the nastiness out? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how much you have to pull out and depends on your skimmer. If you have an used skimmer that is clean and in operations in the past, it may start working right away and pull some or lot of it out. If you buy a new skimmer, it may take a week or two just to break in the skimmer.

[eklikewhoa]

LoL!

I see a lot of people wanting to go "cheap" on starting into reef and either end up with an ugly tank or quitting cause they have problems. There are some that do come out with a presentable looking reef on a budget but the easiest method I have found is to spend the money initially and everything pretty much takes care of itself.

[myjohnson]

@ OP

Lol, and that's why i gave you advice.

LR, water, and power head.

Next on the list should be lights and filtration.

I would go with one or two PAR30 or PAR38 for lighting.

AC70 modded for heater, fuge, and media

This is bang or your buck set up. :)

[eklikewhoa]

I don't doubt that you may have been able to stock 1 or 2 tanks fairly quickly but that is not true each and every time. It depends on your tank, your live rocks, your skimmer ... that is why I mentioned to dump the money up front and even suggest a skimmer rated much higher than the tank

1) Live rocks have bacterias, macros, and other growths on them. How much depends on the size of the rocks, how long they have been in the previous tank and its stocking level ...
These living organism live if the rocks are kept wet and they die if the rocks are dried off. Again, how much die-off changes with different cases.
A little die-off fuels the growth of bacterias, yes, but a lot of die off can not be consumed by the bacterias and your tank can get a spike in ammonia and nitrite, nitrates. These are all changing. Another reason why a large skimmer was suggested and proper transportation of the LR would minimize the die-off. If you let it all die off then you might as well get dry rock which would weigh much less.

2) Can a big skimmer pull all the nastiness out? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how much you have to pull out and depends on your skimmer. If you have an used skimmer that is clean and in operations in the past, it may start working right away and pull some or lot of it out. If you buy a new skimmer, it may take a week or two just to break in the skimmer. Once again, a good quality skimmer would work fairly quick IME, my ReefOctopus started to pull a nice skim within a week.

Yes, some cases will vary but overall if you if you hop into it without sacrificing quality due to cost then it makes it all easier and as stated these methods that have worked for me on several instances and never failed me.

[myjohnson]

I alway recommend checking the water period.

I have set up tanks with very little cycle tank. I set up QT tanks with no cycle time.

It just depends on amount of die off and current condition of LR.

Not all live rock are coming from well established tanks.

[eklikewhoa]

Not all live rock are coming from well established tanks.

More reason why paying for wet rock makes less and less sense.

[Darbex]

I agree with Q. Do it right and spend the money because you are going to anyways or your going to quit when it all fails.

[barberking12]

who do yall think has the best priced uncured live rock for sale

[myjohnson]

A hobbyist.

I know ssrprelude is about to post some up for sale.

You should PM him.