mbu puffer - not doing well

[ChrisBush]

I have an mbu and he seems to get picked on by the other fish in the tank...I think. I have about 10 other African Cich. in there with him. I thought puffers are very aggressive, anyway, should I remove some of the fish out of the tank and if so what do you do with fish that you no longer want?

[Jose]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

How big is your tank?

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

I went to the fish store with my wife and we saw the puffer and thought we really would love to raise this fish. We go all out and buy a 120 gal tank the 300$ puffer and about 10 other cichlids and it seems the puffer is getting picked on. Not sure really what to do, the fish store really sucks when it comes to customer service and I will never go back to that paticular store. That is when I got online and found this forum...perfect...so know all I need is someone who knows something about puffers who might beable to help me out. I would really appreciate any help.
Thanks in advance
Chris

[Jose]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

Have you tested your water?(ammonia,ph,etc.) Puffers are sensitive to water quality since they have no scales. Not sure how big of a tank mbus need but its way bigger than that 120g you got. I wouldnt stick cichlids with puffers.

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

the puffer is only 5 inches and this is one of the reasons I am not happy with the fish store because they said this tank would be fine, I could have easily gotten a bigger tank had they been a little more interested in helping. I really think they just wanted to sale me stuff but not to much that it would run me off. I should have done my home work before the purchase but it was simply an impulse thing. We saw something we really liked and went for it. Now I am stuck with the tank for the interim. I will buy a larger set up down the road. But for know I really need some info so that do not kill the puffer. I really do not care about all the other cichlids besides a couple of them. What do you do with fish you do noy want?

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

I have been checking the water and all is fine there.

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

I wouldnt stick cichlids with puffers.

If this is the case, in which I do believe it is, why didn't the fish store advise me of this. It's this kind of greedy owner seller that makes me sick. They are the ones who said that all the fish I purchased was compatible. I realise I need to learn more about this stuff before rushing into it but as I talked to the staff they sure seemed like everything I was getting was a ok.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

how is your tank set up?
rock piles?
water parameter?
temp?


there are many things that could factor in to why you arent getting the results you want. some things work for some and not for others so laying the blame is a bit of on the wrong side. i think you as a buyer should have done your research before getting into a mess.

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

I am pretty sure the tank is set up right because I paid the guy at the store to come out to my house and set it up. I have the big white rocks full of holes in it with some fake plants, crushed rock as the base, eheim water pump/filter. water temp is at 80F. The water ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate checks out ok.
I agree I should have done some homework but my wife really wanted it at that time. I just thought that the fish store was really leading me in the right direction. I have had cichlid tanks in the past but never a puffer, and for that reason is why we got it so fast. I know you live and learn, but I just want help not lectures

what do you think?

[gt3guru]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

another fish r us horor story!

a customer of mine spent about 3 grand on tanks and fish and they didn't even explain nitrates to her. Shes now giving me her puffer.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

Ditch the other cichlids, probably best to take them back to where you got them from. By any chance was it the place out in conroe? Fish r fun or fish r us, whatever it is?

I'm guessing the cichlids are malawi right? Too aggressive and move to fast for the puffer even if it fought back. So right now you have to make a choice $300 puffer or a couple of $10 africans? What is the measurement of the tank just to be sure its not one of those odd size ones that's really tall and close to no floorspace. If its a std 125g then probably 6' and should be plenty room for them but you have yet listed exactly what cichlids they are or any real water parameters numbers or are you still going by what the LFS is telling you? The same people that told you all the fish would be ok with each other and the african cichlids would try and kill your $300 puffer?

is there just one eheim canister on the tank? If so that's probably not much filteration for the tank and fish you are keeping.

You also stated you jumped into buying a tank for the puffer/cichlids cause the LFS told you it was ok but was the tank cycled? Maybe the puffer isn't taking it too well and weakening it while the robust africans are making it and attacking him? How long was the tank set up before the fish went in?

I personally would remove the africans, get a test kit and test the water parameters for myself, move all fish to another tank if possible or another tank is available and post some numbers for those that want to help can go by.

More specific info would help point you in the direction you need to go if its more than just an aggression issue. It could be just aggression and removing one specific would remedy it but there could be more problems at hand and all fish could me at risk.

Not trying to lecture you but I was just giving my opinion on the responsibilty of both parties. You asked for help but don't give us much to work with other than you gave the LFS money and told them you wanted fish in your house. Oh and I'm guessing you have texas holey rock for deco and crushed coral/aragonite for substrate

Leave the lights off in the tank, reduce the temps to 76-78 in hopes that it will make them less active(attack puffer less) and get some more info.

[ChrisBush]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

Yes it is a FishRUs horror story combined of my own ignorance. I do have a water tester and while I cant really post the exact numbers as of now because i did the test for all the various balances and all was ok two days ago and did not write the numbers down.

I really do think it is the cichlids picking on him because he was really happy when he came home and over the course of the past week he really started to say at the bottom of the tank and I could see this one in particular fish come up to him and he would roll over on his side and the fish would bite the fin on the puffer's stomach. That was the final straw when I saw that. That is why I got up this morning took that fish which I have know idea what kind and flushed him ( sorry I overreacted and I know that was the wrong thing to do, but again, I was emotional and was venting and the poor little fish paid the the ultimate price...my wife was not, is not, real happy with me) I do apologize for this.

I let the tank cycle for 3 weeks. While it was cycling I had 4 cichlids in it and took the water to the LFS (fishrus) and they said the water was fine before I put in the puffer and other fish which were some peacocks , lab, frontosa and to be real honest not even real sure what they all are, 12 in total. my wife and I just asked how many we could put in the tank and then went up and down the aisle and picked out the "pretty ones". I know that was a real rooky mistake but I really believed in the guidance from the store, this is why I will never go back there. I even went back there and tryed talking to them and they really were not helpful, the response I got was " well you picked the fish out and you should know that they are aggressive" I really just about lost it at that time because every fish we picked out I specifically asked if that fish and all the fish including the puffer would go together, and the response was an overwhelmingly " Oh yeah they are all on this aisle for a reason". This aisle is also the aisle the puffers were on. So being the obvous naive person I say OK lets do it. I am chalking this up to experience and am bagging all the fish up and taking them to Aquarium World just to get rid of them. I really just wanted a tank for the puffer and got caught up with putting all these other fish in there...I was like a kid in a candy store or I guess you could say an adult in a fish store (who is not really knowledgable to the hobby) about the same analogy I guess.

I do have Texas holey rock for deco and crushed coral/aragonite for substrate. I took out the really big THR this morning.

Is there any fish that go well with puffers? Or should I leave him in there alone. I do have a giraffe cat that I plan on leaving in the tank.

I was just kidding about the lecture bit. I am just very pissed at the LFS and myself. I really do apprecite the support by all means, and I also have thick skin

[armthehomeless]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

Hope all ends up well!

[jtfields]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

One of the hardest things about this hobby is that it requires research and patience.  It certainly isn't a hobby that encourages an "impulse buy".

Anyway, I'm no expert about the Mbu (or any other species for that matter) but the current issue of the Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine ( http://www.tfhmagazine.com/ ) just happens to have a big article on the Mbu.  I read it at Barnes & Noble (you might want to run out and pick up a copy.)  Anyway, I believe it gets over two feet long so you will definitely need a bigger tank at some point.  Fortunately, I don't think they grow really fast.  He might get pushed around now at five inches but when he gets bigger he will definitely rule the tank if not eat the tank.

You should definitely do a search for "mbu puffer" at the Cichlid Forums:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/

There have been several people who have attempted to keep them with Cichlids.  Some with success and some without.

A good puffers site is http://www.thepufferforum.com/ but for some reason right now that site keeps crashing my computer.

I'm a novice at this myself and my first impulse when I saw your post was to recommend that you take back the Mbu.  It is not a good fish for beginners and you don't want to kill a $300 fish.  Some people don't really even think African Cichlids are good for beginners and you have them both!  That said, people jump in all the time with Africans and do quite well but they also usually do their homework.

Obviously, since you spent $300 on him your intent was to build the tank around the Mbu.  If, after you spend some time researching proper care for the Mbu, you are bound and determined to keep him then I'd take back all the Cichlids and keep the Mbu in the tank by himself until he seems to be established and healthy.  In the meantime begin researching possible tank mates.  Maybe then you could attempt to add Cichlids (as I said some report success) or your research may steer you in a whole different direction.  Just remember your bio load will adjust to just one fish so you will need to be sure that you don't add a bunch of fish at once.

You might want another canister filter if you do keep African Cichlids.  Due to their aggressive nature, many recommend that with Cichlids you overstock and overfilter.  You could try it with just one but if the water is not as clean and clear as you'd like then add another.  I think due to their lower flow rates the mechanical filtration with canisters is not quite as good as some other set-ups (although the bio filtration is superior.)

I know you want a tank full of fish right away but, as I said, from everything I have seen the biggest keys to success in this hobby are patience and knowledge.

I should qualify all of the above by stating that I'm a newbie myself so take my suggestions for what they are worhth.  But I spent over a year doing nothing but research before I even began to consider setting up my 110 gallon (I know, overkill, but I'm obsessive like that.)

[szidlon]

Re: mbu puffer - not doing well

Don't be too hard on yourself, we all sometimes yield to impulse purchases,  Fortunately for me my most recent impulse purchase don't require feeding  

You said you had Fronts, Yellow Labs and Peacocks.  If I were to try to suggest  by process of elimination which ones might get along with your MBU I'd find new homes for the Peacocks first, then the Yellow Labs with the Fronts being the last to eliminate.  Keeping in mind that Frontosas can also get very large, up to 10 inches or more with the males getting even larger, up to 16 inches.

I take my unwanted fish to my LFS and get store credit or you might try posting what you want to get rid of in the Fish Market here.


Good luck on sorting it all out and post some pics of the tank when you get a chance.  We love pictures