Colony Size and Issues

[geoff_tropheus]

I think the most important factor when getting your Tropheus is to get atleast 20 fish and get them into an aquarium of the largest you can afford.  

I prefer 6ft 125 gallon tanks or larger if possible.  I think with 20 fish, that in a 4ft aquarium, I would get a 120 gallon. 4ftx 2ftx 2ft

With that said, I've kept colonies as low as 8 Fish in a 55 gallon and not had a problem.

Then on the flip side, I got my Katoto that are killing each other off, one by one in a 180 gallon with over 50 other Tropheus in there.

Small colonies create problems because it is very easy for the agression to be pinpointed on 1-fish.  You need to have a large colony to spread agression, but you MUST have a large aquarium so that those 20 fish can spread out, and have places to go for relief.

What do you think?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

I have kept a colony of 8mpulungu and it worked out fine just like you.

of course my time frame of experience is not gonna be near as much as your Geoff but when I set my mind on something I try and take it to the extreme. With that being said I have taken notice that almost all threads that have been started with either experiences with death or asking for help with a problem within the colony whether it be disease or aggression related have all had the same thing in common.......small colony size.

Also I have also taken in that the overall personality and mood of the tank with large numbers have always been relaxed with any chasing kept short.

With problems with disease my whole theory behind it is that if you suffer a whole tank loss or multiple "sick" fish is that the whole tank was on the verge of sickness already and just on the health side of it by a thread. Like how everyone believes that a single fish being sick or dying will cause a domino effect of deaths throughout the tank, not entirely true.

The larger the colony size the more confusion it is amongst themselves.....the less one single fish gets targeted for aggression the less likelyhood of problems.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Keeping 8 Moops is not easy, they're mean.

Katoto come from the same area, and I cannot keep their numbers up.  Largest I have fielded at one time though on them is abouot 15 fish.

But they are in a tank with 67 Tropheus , 12 of which are them.

Weird huh?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Also to add to this......I have pushed the limits of what I have read in the past to be great inducers of instant death and problems with the fragile specimens we keep called Tropheus and none so far have shown to be true.

Everyone swears that 100% water changes or anything remotely close would surely cause an instant death throughout the tank via bacteria bloom or shock of beneficial bacteria.......debunked!  Keep filtration at a level where it is great and not "enough to get by" and this would not be a problem. I have been doing 2x a week 100% water changes and sometimes more cause I get pissed that every single troph in there has to poop when they are laying on their sides so I refill a bit and then drain again.

Everyone says that NLS pellets is too much for the Tropheus to handle and will cause blockage which leads to bloat........debunked! I have gone through a 5lb bucket of NLS, 2x 1lb bags of Dainichi in about 3 months and all I have is slightly chubby trophs that are super energetic and pumping fry like they have never before! I have my lights on for a constant 8hrs a day and they are fed 6x a day.....two of those times by me and the other 4 through  a pair of Eheim feeders.

You always hear that Tropheus are fry killers..........debunked! My tropheus only know of one type of stripping....what happens when I come home drunk! I have had great success with letting my trophs spit in the tank and only net when it comes time to get rid of them. Then again I think this has a lot to do with the larger number in the colony.

Having Too much flow......I heard this from a few people saying that it was overkill and it probably isn't beneficial.....well seeing as though my fish have had ZERO problems with health I think I will call this a success. I have 60x circulation rate through my tank at any given time and this seems to have sparked a new personality within my colony.... their overall "attitude" when it comes to feeding amd me approaching the tank has greatly changed to the point where they are like pirhanas! These guys are like flying through the waves in the tank for the food and at times I have seen the glass lids come up some!

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

I agree.

There are a lot of mysteries and un-truths in Tropheus keeping that people propagate in forums, and think they are fact.

I think I could feed mine dogfood, if I wanted too and acclimated them to it.  I dont want too though..to prove it.

Tropheus are a lot stronger fish than given credit.  I've had them live in a wheelbarrow half exposed to the air in January for over 4 hours, and LIVE..with no bloat and bs..

Colony size is important, because if too small of size, it can lead to issues of stress.  You can aleviate that stress by having deocrations, other fish, more fish, and keeping CLEAN water.

In my tanks where I keep single colonies, almost never loose fry.  In my tanks where mulitple colonies exist, there is problems.

I know after all my years of keeping them, and keeping lots of them...the best setup is 25-35 fish in a 125 gallon with as much filtration you can put on it, minimally I would 7X turnover.

[bethesdaboy]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Also to add to this......I have pushed the limits of what I have read in the past to be great inducers of instant death and problems with the fragile specimens we keep called Tropheus and none so far have shown to be true.

Cool now you are a man, with a....

Everyone swears that 100% water changes or anything remotely close would surely cause an instant death throughout the tank via bacteria bloom or shock of beneficial bacteria.......debunked!  Keep filtration at a level where it is great and not "enough to get by" and this would not be a problem. I have been doing 2x a week 100% water changes and sometimes more cause I get pissed that every single troph in there has to poop when they are laying on their sides so I refill a bit and then drain again.

Who ever said this?

Everyone says that NLS pellets is too much for the Tropheus to handle and will cause blockage which leads to bloat........debunked! I have gone through a 5lb bucket of NLS, 2x 1lb bags of Dainichi in about 3 months and all I have is slightly chubby trophs that are super energetic and pumping fry like they have never before! I have my lights on for a constant 8hrs a day and they are fed 6x a day.....two of those times by me and the other 4 through  a pair of Eheim feeders.

NLS is **** and you have fat fish, that said plez contact Delock

You always hear that Tropheus are fry killers..........debunked! My tropheus only know of one type of stripping....what happens when I come home drunk! I have had great success with letting my trophs spit in the tank and only net when it comes time to get rid of them. Then again I think this has a lot to do with the larger number in the colony.

OK, this one I will be serious on, they are, the reds and Brichards are mad killers, come by a tank i will throw a zebra fish for fun

Having Too much flow......I heard this from a few people saying that it was overkill and it probably isn't beneficial.....well seeing as though my fish have had ZERO problems with health I think I will call this a success. I have 60x circulation rate through my tank at any given time and this seems to have sparked a new personality within my colony.... their overall "attitude" when it comes to feeding amd me approaching the tank has greatly changed to the point where they are like pirhanas! These guys are like flying through the waves in the tank for the food and at times I have seen the glass lids come up some!

I would say this overkil land you have been very lucky, you will lose fish, no way around it, just from ur description someone will jump out and be on the floor. i find fish the overflows quite often.

[screename]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

After reading this interesting post, I just increased my turnover ratio to 12x.  We will see how the fish respond in a few weeks.  I hope they color up and start being "happier" even thought Ive only had them less than a week.  I also believe that with all this internet "hype" and "theories", its best to talk to those who have had not only good experiences, but bad ones as well.  I know that my tank is not an ideal size but there really is nothing I can do about it.  I simply do not have the space to put a 6 footer.  Im trying to do the best I can with my 75.

[Delock]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Decrease your colony size to 20 or less!

[J-WS6]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

posted this in my f/s thread for the muragos...

I would like to rule out the thought that small colony sizes don't work. I've kept a trio of duboisi's in an over stocked 55 gallon and still managed to make them breed. My old chimba colony had 15 fish in it originally, JandJ has a colony of 14 Nkonde's in a 90 gallon...Alex always has groups of Tropheus (10-15) in tanks as small as 40 breeders for months at a time.

I agree, however, that anytime you're buying tropheus you should get as many as you can in as big a tank as possible.

Just hard to afford colony's with 40+ fish when you live in a studio apartment and live on a college budget!  

[screename]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

posted this in my f/s thread for the muragos...

I would like to rule out the thought that small colony sizes don't work. I've kept a trio of duboisi's in an over stocked 55 gallon and still managed to make them breed. My old chimba colony had 15 fish in it originally, JandJ has a colony of 14 Nkonde's in a 90 gallon...Alex always has groups of Tropheus (10-15) in tanks as small as 40 breeders for months at a time.

I agree, however, that anytime you're buying tropheus you should get as many as you can in as big a tank as possible.

Just hard to afford colony's with 40+ fish when you live in a studio apartment and live on a college budget!  

AMEN to the college budget!!!!

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Jonathan,

No one is blaming you for what happened with your Muragos.

I do think that Trophs do better in larger colonies, but they got to have space.  You cannot cram 10lbs of **** in a 5lb bag and expect not to get none on you.

If you put too many fish they will not have room to grow, relieve stress, or just be a fish.

Otherwise they become a huddled mass of fish at Papadeuax awaiting the to be batterdipped, fried, and served up with Gumbo.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

I can attest, that I've had to help Mike, and Derek, catch their fish from out of their overflows on several occasions.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

When my fish make it into the overflow I just pull the durso pipe and roller coast ride down into the filter tray.

[Zulaab]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

I hope I dont have to many of these problems in the future.. we will see :)   hehe :)

[J-WS6]

Re: Colony Size and Issues

Jonathan,
No one is blaming you for what happened with your Muragos.

No, I know, I wasn't defending myself, just trying to get the message out there since we're on the subject.