Keeping Church and State Seperate...

[Nickintex]

I'd love to see how that would fly at say, Bellaire High School, where a huge percentage of the students are from Jewish backgrounds. This is my point.

[ImaGuyGeek]

I want to see Nick vs. Chuck Norris :)

http://www.bibleinschools.net/About-Us/Chuck-Norris-Bringing-the-Bible-back-into-schools-WorldNet-Daily

Chuck Norris: Bringing the Bible back into schools (WorldNet Daily) You will definitely want to read this entire article at WorldNet Daily. Our good friend Chuck Norris spells out quite clearly how this grass roots effort is taking hold.
Three hundred eighty-two public school districts have voted to implement a course on it.

Over 1,350 schools in 37 states can now offer it as a textbook.

Approximately 190,000 students have already been taught from it as a course curriculum.

I'm talking about the Bible in public school. It's no joke! And I want to help you get a course on it offered in your school district, too.

The Bible is big news!

Over the past few years dozens of news agencies from all over our nation have reported on the re-entry of Bible curriculum back into classrooms.

Just this past week, Time ran a cover story, "Why we should teach the Bible in public school."

Georgia's Legislature approved and is preparing its 180 school districts to offer two literature classes on the Bible.

More than 800 Craig, Colo., residents are petitioning to get an elective class at Moffat County High School on the history and literature of the Bible.

In my own state of Texas, the House Public Education Committee is presently considering requiring the state's 1,700 school districts to offer history and literature courses using the Bible as the primary text.

Liberal attacks on Bible curriculum

Of course, liberal groups are fighting at great expense to keep the Bible from being taught in public classrooms.

The Texas Freedom Network, or TFN, is one of them – a self-admitted adversary of any biblically conservative movement, calling themselves "a mainstream voice to counter the religious right." The TFN, for example, is requesting five unnecessary changes to the Texas bill, which is intended to assure students are taught this classic text:

• Mandate that teachers have appropriate academic qualifications and sufficient training on legal and constitutional issues surrounding instruction about the Bible in public schools.
  
• Require rigorous, scholarly reviewed textbooks and other curriculum materials for all courses.
  
• Include strong and specific language that protects the religious freedom of students and their families by barring the use of Bible classes to evangelize or promote personal religious perspectives.
  
• Require the Texas Education Agency to regularly monitor and report on the content of public school Bible courses to ensure that they are academically and legally appropriate.
  
• Continue to allow districts the option to offer – or not offer – such courses.

Much more subtle than the TFN are the liberal ''compromises'' being offered by such individuals as Charles Haynes, the head of the Freedom Forum First Amendment Center, who purports to be a helper ''for schools and communities [to] find common ground on conflicts involving religion and values in public schools.'' Haynes' address of this issue remains suspect due to his continued track record of pushing a very pro-liberal platform – something that would make any card-carrying member of the ACLU proud. His conflict of interest also lies in the self-promotion of a textbook, ''The Bible and its influence,'' which he has partnered in developing and marketing to public schools.
Groups like TFN, or masked secular progressives like Charles Haynes, are offering a paranoid and polemic reaction to protect children from being preached at with the Scriptures. In the end, however, if they have their way, they will inadvertently prohibit the children of our land from learning about the one sacred text that has influenced more spheres in our nation than any other. Even more, they are fighting against the very positions and purposes for which our Founding Fathers raised up this country.

The Word from your Founding Fathers

Anyone who has studied early American history knows that the Bible has always been embedded throughout our culture, from classrooms to congressional halls. This was especially the case in the origins of our nation.

A study by the American Political Science Review on the political documents of the founding era, which was from 1760-1805, discovered that 94 percent of the period's documents were based on the Bible, with 34 percent of the contents being direct citations from the Bible. The Scripture was the bedrock and blueprint of our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, academic arenas and heritage until the last quarter of a century.

Citing a few of our Founding Fathers, the NCBCPS website notes:

"The Bible is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed." – Patrick Henry

"It is impossible to enslave mentally or socially a Bible reading people. The principles of the Bible are the groundwork of human freedom." – Horace Greeley

"I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens." – Thomas Jefferson

While president of the United States, Thomas Jefferson was elected the first president of the Washington, D.C., public school board, which used the Bible as a reading text in the classroom.

If men like Jefferson believed in biblical education, it is not difficult to understand why liberal groups like TFN are losing the battle to prohibit the Bible and its influence on Western civilization from being taught in public schools. Try as they might, they will succumb to a force far bigger than themselves.

Gena and I ponder and pray through many requests to endorse certain causes and products, but it took us only a few minutes to decide to support and even join the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools, or NCBCPS.

NCBCPS's course helps students understand the Bible's influence and impact on history, literature, our legal and educational systems, as well as art, archaeology and other parts of civilization. In this elective class, students are required to read through their textbook – the Bible.

Unknown to most, it's legal and our constitutional right to be taught the Bible in public schools!

That is why, from California and Alaska to Pennsylvania and Florida, 93 percent of boards approached with NCBCPS's Bible curriculum have voted to implement it.

You can preview some of the curriculum or the teacher's guide at their website.

To learn how anyone can help their local school board to implement Bible curriculum, please write or call NCBCPS at the contact information below.

For a contribution of any size, a starter package with a step-by-step guide, all legal data necessary to satisfy the questions of school board members, letters from school districts that have implemented it, the table of contents of the Bible curriculum, and other NCBCPS information will be sent to you immediately.

[marauder_77868]

Nick....
It wasn't a specific "you" directed at you personally. It perhaps would have been better if instead of "you" I had said "a person". Regardless of that, an agenda, on both sides, remains. I think that Christians are the only ones being intellectually honest about it because I think a majority of those against creation being taught in the schools do have an anti-religion bias and agenda and you are probably the exception, not the rule.

[Darbex]

I am not in favor of forcing Christianity to anyone. But I think that in history classes it should be taught why the framers of this nation did what they did and not skirt around the fact that they created this nation on principles that they felt were necessary from Christianity.

[Nickintex]

Let's get one thing straight (excuse the term). I do not hate religion nor am I working toward "agnostic society". My point is that religious teachings do not belong in a public classroom. To me, that is like trying to convert people. If one wants to convert as an individual, that's fine. As you feel that the idea of evolution is being "crammed down people's throats" is wrong, what makes forcing of an individual religion on others via the classroom ok? So if we have Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or Shinto children in the classroom, it's the teacher's responsibility to change them over to Christianity? Now, to teach ABOUT RELIGIONS from a historical, or sociological perspective is completely different. Sure, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian priniciples. Who's to say which one is the "correct" Christianity? Whatever happened to religious tolerance?

[marauder_77868]

Perhaps it should be noted that Texas accepts very little federal funding of its schools (I think its less than 10&#37 and then, and please correct me if I'm wrong, only those funds for use in specific programs with which it agrees. Whether or not you believe that the Contitution (federal) espouses a "separation of church and state" or not, I don't believe that's necessarily germane to the discussion of teaching religion in Texas public schools. I can understand if you hate religion and want to work toward an agnostic society, but trying to get it into Texas public education by draping yourself in the federal Constitution is disingenuous at best.

[ImaGuyGeek]

I am also a proponent to religion being taught in school not just Christianity but all so we can all understand what each religion teaches to gain a mutual respect. There are many people that dont understand Islam and assume that it breads terrorists but if you actually knew the religion you will realized that Islam has been hijacked by nut jobs in the name of religion.

Easy there Brian. That sounds kinda like "Diversity" :) If we start using diversity in it's true definition we're going to throw off the hijacked liberal version of diversity that is intolerant of any opposing views.

[Darbex]

I am also a proponent to religion being taught in school not just Christianity but all so we can all understand what each religion teaches to gain a mutual respect. There are many people that dont understand Islam and assume that it breads terrorists but if you actually knew the religion you will realized that Islam has been hijacked by nut jobs in the name of religion.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Back when I was in elementary, I remember a classmate mentioning the "that's how God made it" line, and the teacher then stating that we could not speak about religion in school. Back then, I did not understand it. Now I do. If we were all the same religion unanimously, I can see where it would be ok. If you want religion taught in the classroom, public school is just not the place. There are private schools just for that. Growing up, I remember going to "CCD" classes after school at the local Catholic Church to deal with all the sacraments, communion, confirmation, etc. Looking back, that seems appropriate. Why would a Jewish kid, for example, need to exposed to all that in a PUBLIC school?

Well, the fact is that the United States of America was founded by Christians on Christian principals. This statement is not a "Feeling", it is a "Fact". Nobody has to like it, nobody has to be a Christian because of it and nobody is going to be persecuted by it. It just IS. We can't change our history and we can't deny it. If we are going to teach students about the country we live in, they need to know the facts and that means (dare I say it?) they are going to hear about Christianity. That is why a "Jewish kid" needs to hear about Christianity from a historical perspective.

[Nickintex]

Back when I was in elementary, I remember a classmate mentioning the "that's how God made it" line, and the teacher then stating that we could not speak about religion in school. Back then, I did not understand it. Now I do. If we were all the same religion unanimously, I can see where it would be ok. If you want religion taught in the classroom, public school is just not the place. There are private schools just for that. Growing up, I remember going to "CCD" classes after school at the local Catholic Church to deal with all the sacraments, communion, confirmation, etc. Looking back, that seems appropriate. Why would a Jewish kid, for example, need to exposed to all that in a PUBLIC school?

[Fire_chair]

The Old Testament dates to 4,000 BC when the first evidence of writing and Civilization existed.

I saw an article recently saying that there might be proof that parts were written about 1500 years earlier than previously thought. That probably doesn't mean much for this discussion, but I thought it was interesting.

[geoff_tropheus]

Black or white?

Karen you are amazing woman, and friend. You totally made my day yesterday.

Thank you so very much for the small things. :)

[geoff_tropheus]

The Old Testament dates to 4,000 BC when the first evidence of writing and Civilization existed. People can argue about Creation stories, and floods, and whatnot, but no one can deny that around 33AD a man namned Jesus, claimned to be the Messiah, suffered massive punishment and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, was buried, and claimned to have risen from the dead. There are numerous written accounts of people who claim to have seen him, and ascend into Heaven. All but 1 of these people Died for that, they gave their lives, not because they believed in a creation story or a flood story, or even a Exodus story... They died because they SAW him. They knew it not as a story, but as truth.

A highly educated, and well off Roman Citizen, claimed this same man blinded him years later, and appeared to him. This changed his life, he gave up all the luxuries, to a life of suffering and all the others since then, he went from persecutor of this people, to being one of them. He too, gave his life, not because of a story, but for what he knew to be truth.

For the next 330 years, people gave their lives because of truth, first hand accounts, not stories or fables.

God's mysteries are revealed to us every day, and will keep doing so till the end of this age. The mysteries to the very minute,sub-atomic existance in quatum physics, to the grand scales of relativity of space and time are no different than Electricity, flight, and Atomic Power. Why would anyone consider Evolution, the Human Genome, or the Big Bang any different...

[wesleydnunder]

I don't see anything necessarily wrong with it as long as the same courtesy would be extended to non-Christian and non-religious groups.

Mark

[nacra99]

I came across this today. Whatdda you guys think?

I'm not asking whether this is bogus simply because it is presented by a religious group. Or what their intent or agenda is.
I'm asking what you think of the claims made within the video.

http://www.citizenlink.org/videofeatures/A000012642.cfm