Want to build an Under-the-stand sump... 60g FW... Ideas?

[CptCrusty1]

Ok. So you have adapters, etc. in place... What is you definition of "not Cheap"....

[troy tucker]

They are an option. just not a cheep option.
photo (188).jpg

[CptCrusty1]

good build out Cpt. been thinking about doing the same thing mostly due to lack of space under the tank but nevertheless good work hopefully you won't have any issues

Baron, it wasn't hard. I tried really hard not to over think it which is difficult for me. I got so much advice about overflow boxes, this pump/that pump, gotta-haves, etc. When I plotted it out, I spent around $75 total. I really took my time. If you want detailed pictures, I'll be happy to supply them.

What I'd like to do now is build another one that is 20 gallons, but within the dimensions allowed. This brings me to a question...

I'm moving about 600 gph right now, about 10 times volume an hour. I've effectivly doubled my flow, and my filtration; however, If I doubled my filtration size again but kept flow the same, how does that stack up against just increasing flow? I can't put 1000gph into a 60g fw tank.,, but I want to overstock it... so the answer I guess is to keep increasing filter material, not necessarily flow, right?

[CptCrusty1]

are you using PVC ball valve? I changed most of my ball valves to stainless steel. they work so much better. Its like night and day.

I didn't know there was an option for a stainless ball valve. So is that a PVC housing? Is it something that plugs into the PVC directly?

[LordBarron7692]

good build out Cpt. been thinking about doing the same thing mostly due to lack of space under the tank but nevertheless good work hopefully you won't have any issues

[LordBarron7692]

Something called used. Lol if you're lucky enough you can find a 125gal rated wet dry for $20-40.

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125gal wet/dry for $20-40? you would have to be extremely lucky like the luckiest person in the universe lol

[troy tucker]

are you using PVC ball valve? I changed most of my ball valves to stainless steel. they work so much better. Its like night and day.

[CptCrusty1]

UPDATE: In an effort to get better control on the flow, I switched the ball valve to a gate valve. Bad move. The gate valve, even though it's more precise with regards to controllling the water flow, is also more restrictive to the water flow, thus, it is open all the way and the return pump is more than keeping up with it. Conversely, the Ball Valve stays about 1/2 open and I have to tap it a teency bit to get the flow just right. So... back to the ball valve....

UNLESS... I switch to 1 inch PVC instead of 3/4 Inch....... Hmmm. More pipe, more cutting, more fun.... wooohooooo!!

[CptCrusty1]

Everything was new (Gnu?) except the pump. I still have additional plans for the whole thing like creating a better diffuser on the exhaust end of things. Putting a "nicer" looking over flow box on the intake side of things. The problem I have with the overflow box is that they only skim off the surface of the tank. The downline going into the tank will pick up stuff through the whole water column.

[mistahoo]

Re: Want to build an Under-the-stand sump... 60g FW... Ideas?

Something called used. Lol if you're lucky enough you can find a 125gal rated wet dry for $20-40.

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[CptCrusty1]

Seems a bit pricey

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If you're joking, then I'll laugh... if you're not... well.... :)

Let's compare:

Here is a link to just a sump. No pump, no down lines or returns. Just the sump:

http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-34502-ProFlex-Model-65-110-Gallon/dp/B003I5SH36/ref=sr_1_8?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1361969949&sr=1-8&keywords=aquarium+sump+system

Oh... it's $249.

I required 300gph or higher from the pump:

http://www.amazon.com/Rio-8HF-HyperFlow-Water-Pump/dp/B003SNOWZU/ref=sr_1_11?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1361970091&sr=1-11&keywords=aquarium+sump+pump

I paid $20.

I paid $37 for the PVC and plastic hoses. .. It isn't pretty for my first time at bat, but it works well. I need to make one change and that is the ball valve needs to change to something with more control since I can't tweak the ball valve in small enough increments to balance the return of the pump effectively. Right now it takes about 3-4 hours, but either the pump will push more water than is draining, or the drain goes faster than the pump. In the former, it just means the pump runs out of water and pushes some air for a second, but the system keeps working. In the latter situation, the tank drains to the flooding control holes in the down tube breaking suction... then I have to restart the system, or it's too noisy. I'm still tweaking, but it's been fun so far.

[mistahoo]

Re: Want to build an Under-the-stand sump... 60g FW... Ideas?

Seems a bit pricey

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[CptCrusty1]

20130226_190909.jpg20130226_220505.jpg

Ok.. Here's an update...



In the first picture, you can see the plumbing for the intake sitting on top. It's not completely anchored, just at the part where it fits through a piece of plexi on top right. The reason for this was so that I could disconnect the intake line and swing the whole thing out of the way. The water drains out and flows over a piece of plexy with holes drilled in it so the water will trickle down over any media I decide to put underneath. The bottom is open about 3/4 inch with a baffle immediatly after to force the water down the media and up over the next wall. If the pipes were glued/siliconed in place, I wouldn't be able to get anything out. This way I can.

You'll see 2 ball valves. The first one on the right is to set my flow from the tank, either totally open, or shut, or somewhere in between. I did this because I wasn't sure of the flow rate of the return pump, and this enables me to raise or lower the water level in the sump as needed. The ball valves don't move so smoothly but they are better than others I tried. Getting the setting just right is tricky.

The 2nd ball valve sitting a 90 degrees serves 2 purposes.
1st, I'd read that people were putting check valves at the apex of the u-pipe on top. I figured I'd be sucking fish water for a while so I put in this valve to help prime the system. All I have to do is close the valve going to the sump and open the valve to the suction line. Give a little suck and gravity does the rest. Once I have a little water coming down, I just close the valve and the suction will fill the pipe all the way up. Then I open the valve to the sump and off she goes. I never swallowed any fish water.
2nd, I can siphon off water for water changes, as well as add water here too. I tried it and it works great.

On the far left of the piping structure is the barb where the 3/4 ID hose connects.

The 2nd picture shows the setup under the tank, no substrate or media in there yet, just testing the flow. I'm certain I'm going to have to change things a bit because the flow rate will change as things are added.


Overflow/flood protection.
I've seen many setups for the overflow going down to the sump.. I didn't have the room behind the tank and it would be a pain to move it further. What I did was connect the 3/4 hose with a barb adapter to some 3/4 ID PVC to a riser up the wall, then to 2 90's, and 15" line going into the tank and capped at the bottom. I used my dremmel and a cutting disk to cut grooves in the cap, then a couple grooves in alternating locations on the riser pipe in the tank. To protect from flooding, I cut 2 large slices in the riser pipe at slight angles. I measured the max water lever, took the inside dimensions of the tank, and calculated that a drop f 1 inch of water will fill the sump by about 3 gallons. Since the sump is a 10g tank, I determined that I should never keep it more than half full, leaving me a 2 gallon buffer. I tested this by priming the intake line and letting it run after a couple minutes, I heard the suction from the cuts, and watched as the water slowly trickled to a stop. I might make the holes bigger to speed that up. Oh. the holes aren't at the same level. One is slightly higher. If the first one starts sucking air it makes lots of noise. That would be a warning, or just a notice that I need to make some adjustments, or add water.

The output line is just a piece of 3/4 ID hose going to your typical black u-shaped output. I drilled a small hole just below the water line on that as well to make sure in an outage it doesn't also become a drain.

I don't trust it yet, but so far, it seems like it works well. Yes, it's ugly, but I'm not an artist. Total spent:

$14 - 10g tank.
$6 = Tube of GE5000 series silicone - food safe.
$25 = 2 12"x24" pieces of polycarbonate/Plexy (whatever).
$50 = PVC pipes, etc.
$20 = 540gph pump from another HFB-er.

The same setup would have been much more expensive, albiet prettier. I'll take the more than $200 saved and go for pretty later. If this works well, I'm going to change up to a 20g Long, or something generally larger. The only thing I'll have to by other than the tank is two more pieces of plexy....

Thoughts anyone?

[mnemenoi]

They have a Cleaner and PVC glue/cement, all the stores will sell it. Most plumbing is for resediential usage, so should be fine for use in aquariums as well. Just let it dry well and be liberal with the cement.

[CptCrusty1]

The two part they sell for pvc.

Uh... could you elaborate a little more?