Water Hardness, pH and alkalanity question

[Frostbyte]

Ok, so first of all, I live in Baytown... not sure about everywhere else around houston, but our water here is hard. When I originally started, I had a 10 gallon tank. After letting that tank cycle (with fish) I bought a 20 gallon long which I currently am using. I noticed that when testing the water in my 10 gallon tank (using only tap water with dechlorinator) my hardness was always around 150ppm. So when I switched to the 20 gallon tank, I used the original water from the 10 gallon, 5 gallons of distilled water and around 5 more gallons of treated tap water. I assumed this would at least partly decrease my hardness. However after 4 days in the new tank my hardness is still around 150ppm. I should also point out that I am using Tetra Easy Strips 6 in 1 which I am very aware are not the most accurate thing in the world. My testing today revealed - Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20ppm, Hardness 150ppm, Chlorine 0, Alkalanity 120, and pH of 7.8. My question after all of this is, short of buying a RO system, how can I decrease the pH and hardness. And if I decrease the hardness (dissolved solids) wouldn't I in turn be decreasing the alkalanity? I really am trying to understand this. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Picture of the tank currently

[blaciarmd]

1st id like to ask what kind of fish you will be keeping that require "soft" water? You would be better off going to a Watermill station or any of those water stations in the parking lots of strip malls or a petshop to get your RO. Since you only need 30g an RO unit may not be necessary. It takes a long time to make RO water and you can get what you need quickly with six 5 gallon water containers. you waste alot of water too.

[mredman]

Decreasing water hardness will in turn reduce alkalinity. Unless you are going high tech, the water hardness is not that important for most freshwater fish (there are notable exceptions). However, ammonia levels should be at 0 for any fish. The higher the pH, the more toxic your ammonia levels will be in your aquarium. At 20 ppm, it is time for a water change for most fish.

Mike

[Frostbyte]

Hey Mike, thanks for the reply. I am waiting for my tank to cycle again so I am doing 10-15% water changes every couple days. My fish are not showing any signs of ammonia stress and I know my bacteria will be bringing the ammonia down soon. What I need to know here is how I can bring the pH down of my water. I have recently added some small pieces of drift wood. I am soaking more to get it water logged (it has been boiled already ). However most of what I've read is that driftwood won't change the pH that much. I would really like it closer to 7.2 than 7.8 where it is now. I am also under the impression that the hardness of the water and the alkalinity, when high, make the pH more stable and more difficult to change. Am I worried about nothing here?

[mredman]

Water parameters

Depending on the fish you want to keep, I would not be overly-concerned about the pH. For example, apistos and the bristlenose plecostomus (even angels) would prefer acidic water but most of our locally-obtained fish have been acclimated to higher pH levels. That Fish Place, on the NW side of Houston, keeps all of their fish in alkaline water, including discus and they are very healthy. The only fish health issue I have seen there is ich with the hatchet fish. Personally, I don't think hatchets should be raised in water less than 84F as temperature is the best medicine for this fish disease.

Alkalinity does provide pH buffering capacity but if you do not overload the tank, make regular water changes, and remove excess food, your risk is low.

Alternatively, if you want a low pH tank (less than 7), it may be a better environment for some fish such as discus, but it also has its own challenges.

My next project is a low pH, high tech tank with LED lighting and a CO2 system (135 gallons). I am doing this more for the plant challenge rather than the fish.

Mike

Hey Mike, thanks for the reply. I am waiting for my tank to cycle again so I am doing 10-15% water changes every couple days. My fish are not showing any signs of ammonia stress and I know my bacteria will be bringing the ammonia down soon. What I need to know here is how I can bring the pH down of my water. I have recently added some small pieces of drift wood. I am soaking more to get it water logged (it has been boiled already ). However most of what I've read is that driftwood won't change the pH that much. I would really like it closer to 7.2 than 7.8 where it is now. I am also under the impression that the hardness of the water and the alkalinity, when high, make the pH more stable and more difficult to change. Am I worried about nothing here?

[troy tucker]

If you keep fish in Texas you will learn how to deal with the hard water. PH. Is high here. my PH is in the 8. range. If you buy from local LFS. The fish are acclimated to our water. So there is no reason to change the PH. South American fish are the only real soft water fish out there and most of those, like scalar angel fish are home bread now. So they do better in the high PH then if they were wild. Wild fish can be acclimated to our water too. I know this because I have Altum. This is a wild fish and mine are in Houston tap water. I also do Discus. Even Discus are born and raised in our water now. Where wild Discus are very hard to raise. It is still harder to raise Discus because of their need for warmer water. You see the warmer the water the more deadly ammonia becomes. Discus require higher temperature.
You can lower PH but it can led to crashing tanks. PH will bounce back up. Killing everything.
IMO: it's best to keep your PH stable don't try to change it.

[Frostbyte]

If you keep fish in Texas you will learn how to deal with the hard water. PH. Is high here. my PH is in the 8. range. If you buy from local LFS. The fish are acclimated to our water. So there is no reason to change the PH. South American fish are the only real soft water fish out there and most of those, like scalar angel fish are home bread now. So they do better in the high PH then if they were wild. Wild fish can be acclimated to our water too. I know this because I have Altum. This is a wild fish and mine are in Houston tap water. I also do Discus. Even Discus are born and raised in our water now. Where wild Discus are very hard to raise. It is still harder to raise Discus because of their need for warmer water. You see the warmer the water the more deadly ammonia becomes. Discus require higher temperature.
You can lower PH but it can led to crashing tanks. PH will bounce back up. Killing everything.
IMO: it's best to keep your PH stable don't try to change it.

Thanks a bunch! This really helped me a lot. I guess I'm reading information from a lot of different sources and many say that tetras prefer softer water with a pH in the 6.8-7.2 range. That had me worried but your thoughtful and insightful response was very helpful! I'm a registered nurse professionally so I guess it is in my blood to want to ensure optimum environments for health. The 4 fish in my tank seem to be doing well. I'm just waiting on the 20 gallon to cycle. I kept the tetra Whisper 10 filter from my 10 gallon that had cycled in this one but also added an Aquaclear 20. They are both running right now. Im just hoping to see a decrease in ammonia and increase in nitrite levels soon. Thanks again!

[NavyDan]

Just throwing my two cents in here. Mredman has good info.

I am OCD and strive to mimic natural aquatic conditions. If you want to lower your ph, remove carbon from the filter, fill a bag with peat granules (or moss) and put it in the filter. Also, boiling down drift wood removes tannis, which helps lower PH. So don't boil driftwood, just do frequent water changes if you dislike coloration. Take a look at using alder cones and the addition of catappa leaves to help keep ph low. Lastly, use only RO water in your tank. You can either mix RO with some tap water, or re-mineralize RO water with chemicals.

[Frostbyte]

Hey NavyDan,
Thanks for your input. I know that the tannins released by the drift wood hold the acids that will actually decrease the pH. I am not unable to stand yellow water. I may try the peat moss, however finding pure peat, without fertilizers or chemicals added is difficult. And simply removing carbon from the filter will help? What would I use in place of carbon? I love learning. Thanks for the help!

[ptran]

Carbon absorbs tanning. Some other also use almond leaves to lower pH, but I think you have to order them online.

On a side note, I believe those tetra will do just fine in Houston water. Why do you want to soften the water? Just curious.

[NavyDan]

Removing carbon from the filter and replacing it with a bag of peat will help. I do not run carbon in my filters.

You can buy most aquarium needs on Amazon. I bought two boxes of peat from Fluvall, for about $10 each. I bought cattapa leave on Amazon as well, and the alder cones on Ebay (came from Europe). You can but the filter bags too. Just fyi though, if I remember correctly your filer has one of those skinny drop in things? If so, I would prefer to get a different kind.

[Frostbyte]

Removing carbon from the filter and replacing it with a bag of peat will help. I do not run carbon in my filters.

You can buy most aquarium needs on Amazon. I bought two boxes of peat from Fluvall, for about $10 each. I bought cattapa leave on Amazon as well, and the alder cones on Ebay (came from Europe). You can but the filter bags too. Just fyi though, if I remember correctly your filer has one of those skinny drop in things? If so, I would prefer to get a different kind.

The Aquaclear does have a drop in tray. The bottom layer is sponge, the middle layer is a carbon bag, and the top layer is the "Biomax" ceramic rings. I could try replacing the carbon layer with a layer of peat. I bought some of the Fluval Peat pellets on Amazon. I'm going to give this a try. Thanks again for your help!

[ptran]

Watch out for the carbon bag if you decide to use it. The bag broke on me a few times.

[Frostbyte]

Good advice. Thank you.

[fishman13218]

Mike I like your response about hatchet fish.
Having been to Peru and collected hatchet fish. The really strange thing I found is. One stream feeding into the Amazon will have only Silvers. The next stream less than a mile away will have only Marbles. You figure.
The temps were never that warm.