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Antagonistic Threads - I'm over it.

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  • Antagonistic Threads - I'm over it.

    I've started to type up something to this affect several times, however, those of you who know me, know I prefer to let you all be adults and work out your own issues. Well, at this point, I can tell that you will not be able to work it out on your own. This has also become big enough that I cannot handle it through PMs because there are enough of you engaging in this that it would take me all night to address it individually. So, here we go....

    The idea that tropheus should not be cross-bred is not something born on HFB. It's something that is historic and global. It is a respect for a beautiful species of fish that is so abstract in their color differences that they need no help from humans.

    There are people who go collecting for specific fish in the interest of saving a species - they don't crossbreed. Just like there are people who have colonies of specific fish who are interesting in maintaining the genetic integrity of that species of fish - they don't crossbreed. Those who prefer to keep their colonies from cross-breeding are doing nothing more than respecting the way Tropheus have been brought to us from the wild. Most hobbyists want to keep a colony of Tropheus that is representative of how they are found in the wild. If this is not something you want to do, that's your choice and no one here can stop you. But the jabs at those who do, need to end.

    Here at HFB, when it comes to Bettas, Phishphreek is 'elite'. Tropheus, Geoff_Tropheus is 'elite'. Cichlids in general, marauder_77868 is 'elite'. This is just to name a few. Being elite when discussing breeds of fish brings a level of expertise and knowledge to HFB that elevates all of us as members to a level of understanding that we are all able to benefit from. This is something we at HFB should celebrate, not attach negative connetations to. This is part of what makes HFB such a great place.

    At the end of the day, you come to HFB to share knowledge and experience, and get advice, like the rest of us. If you choose to blatantly disregard the advice offered by those who are the 'elite', yes 'elite', in their knowledge and experience with Tropheus, that's fine. But there is absolutely no reason to rub anyone's face in it, nor is there any reason to refer to someone as an elitist, inferring that they are wrong for standing up for what they believe. I have been very fair and have been standing aside to let you all state your opinions, but I am personally offended by the 'elitist' name-calling (I am a proud Tropheus keeper). And posting threads for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of someone is technically considered a 'Flame'. We have rules against that kind of behavior here and at this point, I feel you have left me know choice but to start policing the site and locking these threads down. I prefer to allow you to use your own judgment, and have HEALTHY heated discussions, but if a thread is nothing more than a jab at those who have done nothing other than express a respect for Tropheus, then I will step in.

    If anyone wants to discuss this more, please feel free to PM me.
    Our Fishhouse
    Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.

  • #2
    Shouldn't be limited to just Troph owners.
    Since I have a different view of the hobby, some of these destroy all (insert hybrid or line breed here) may have the same effect on me. Yes, I know why is frowned upon. But I am looking at said fish as an individual with a life and who needs a home just the same as any "real fish". We should all respect each other's perscpective. I know I sometimes may say something that irritates someone else, but you know what? It brings to the surface WHY someone feels as passionate as they do. I see no harm in that at long as it does not become a flame war. I have no problems discussing why I have such eclectic/eccentric taste in fish.
    Now this tater bashing that just happened was uncalled for. That was just wrong.
    PLECOS SUCK!

    https://www.facebook.com/NickInTex1970

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    • #3
      as most of you know, i am a very chill person and i dont really ever get a rise out of anything. I have never, and will never, question the knowledge of an "elitist" but i constantly have witness members here being, for the lack of a better word, a** holes, towards other members for their fish keeping decisions/beliefs even though these people provide just as adequate and proper care for fish. Honestly, would anyone even be on this site if they didnt love fish? no. The playful banter is easily accepted but it often escalates to ridiculous outbursts and arguments (guilty). You have every right to be upset, traci, and so do others. Fish can be kept in many set ups and be just as happy. I was tired of seeing so many people talk S*** about particular tropheus keepers and so i made a thread out of anger. I do not feel like i did anything wrong and i do not regret anything ive ever said on the box. I have made alot of friends but at the same time i think some people are extremely arrogant just as much. However, there is surely no argument that this is one of the best fish sites out there.
      I make people happy

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      • #4
        Originally posted by imagirlgeek View Post
        Here at HFB, when it comes to Bettas, Phishphreek is 'elite'. Tropheus, Geoff_Tropheus is 'elite'. Cichlids in general, marauder_77868 is 'elite'. Heavy lifting job, DeLock is 'elite'.
        Sorry, I know this is a serious thread...but that's funny!
        250gallon-Wild Angels, community

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        • #5
          Interesting topic. I am way to new at the Troph scene to make any reasonable, inteligent opinion on this subject. My insticnt tells me not to crossbreed, but I'm a moron.

          I agreee the "jabs" are sometimes inappropriate. But, personally, I like to read the threads that make good points and express their own personal beliefs on this subject. I think that is what makes this forum great. If people can just stick to the facts with supporting documentation, then I think the discussion is worth having!

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          • #6
            I want everyone to be clear on something. I'm not saying that you can't have discussions with opposing views on a subject. And I'm not saying that they can't get heated sometimes. What I'm talking about specifically are the posts that are nothing more than shallow, sarcastic comments that add nothing to the discussion, are mainly a passive-aggressive jab at a particular person, and cause people to go from a healthy heated discussion to fighting. I spent several hours last night cleaning up threads and attempting to resolve conflicts.
            Our Fishhouse
            Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.

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            • #7
              So you deleted these threads before I could read them!?!?!? DANG!!!!!! :)

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              • #8
                I have seen many discussions regarding different peoples beliefs regarding breeding and purity (particularly when it comes to something like Tropheus) but then same people keep hybrids that have been around a long time and may be a species all their own now. certain fish have certain expectations some of the time. I personally dont keep tropheus simply because i dont have the space, and there are not too many other species that can be kept with them, and i like "variety tanks" most of the time. doesnt mean i dont like their beauty. But i love my Mongrel dog (even though i think he is ugly) and what was once considered a mutt to people is now very popular hybrids which cost much more then original breeds. so only time will tell what will happen to any of the fish species we see in the hobby. what amazing colored fish might happen from an accidental hybridization or intentional. i just know i dont have the time to worry about it either way. so kick back enjoy your tanks, and keep it clean on here so Traci can take the time to enjoy her tanks too, and not waste time telling adults to behave accordingly.
                Never fear I is here
                David Abeles
                Vice President
                Greater Houston Aquarium Club

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                • #9
                  Man I get sick for a weekend and dont come on here and I miss all of this. I agree with Traci sometimes the jabs clearly go beyond fun and are created in anger or hate. The box doesnt need that. Granted this is a local site and we all run into each other and sometimes bad things go down but we should try to keep it to a minimum when talking about it on here as this is an informative site about the hobby. That being said understand stopping the elitist comments but if we go down protecting those jabs then the jabs towards hybridizations should be stopped. I know when I first started out keeping Malawi mixed I felt some heat for allowing the possibility of hybridization to occur which i didnt mind because sometimes you can get some cool colors to form. Remember we are all hybrids and I am more so than most others. All this to say just be careful and remember to respect everyone and dont make a jab unless you know that person and they are ok with it. And even if you "think" they are ok with it make sure because sometimes they may not be. Learned this from my own experience.
                  Resident fish bum
                  330G FOWLR
                  34G Reef
                  330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
                  28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
                  Treasurer, GHAC

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                  • #10
                    PM me examples of jabs toward hybridization of trophs. We're not talking about other cichlids, dogs or people. The attacks I'm referring to are toward Troph keepers. Sure, I have no doubt there are times when there are comments in other cases, but I did a search and found that these Flames are mostly started by 2 specific people (and is growing) and aimed primarily at Troph keepers in Tropheus specific threads.

                    All I ask is that if you want to post an opposing view, back up that view. No more lobbing a grenade in an otherwise peaceful thread just to start a fight.
                    Our Fishhouse
                    Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.

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                    • #11
                      Understood
                      Resident fish bum
                      330G FOWLR
                      34G Reef
                      330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
                      28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
                      Treasurer, GHAC

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                      • #12
                        I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm one of the "grenade lobbers" but I seriously meant no harm. I stated in the hybrid thread that even some of the "experts" couldnt tell the difference between species. I didnt mean that in a slandering way, I was just irritated that a few people wanted to actually kill these fish due to mix breeding. Don't we all love Tiger Woods, Mariah Carrey, Jessica Alba and President Obama? I am very sorry if any of my comments are hurtful or offensive to anyone. If I ever do this to anyone, PM me and let me know so I can chill out. I have a very dry, sometimes off-putting, sense of humor and I usually mean NO HARM TO ANYONE. Traci, I am very sorry that you had to sit up all night looking through these threads and cleaning up our mess.
                        If it ain't wild caught
                        You ain't doing it right

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FrontosaurusRex View Post
                          I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm one of the "grenade lobbers" but I seriously meant no harm. I stated in the hybrid thread that even some of the "experts" couldnt tell the difference between species. I didnt mean that in a slandering way, I was just irritated that a few people wanted to actually kill these fish due to mix breeding. Don't we all love Tiger Woods, Mariah Carrey, Jessica Alba and President Obama? I am very sorry if any of my comments are hurtful or offensive to anyone. If I ever do this to anyone, PM me and let me know so I can chill out. I have a very dry, sometimes off-putting, sense of humor and I usually mean NO HARM TO ANYONE. Traci, I am very sorry that you had to sit up all night looking through these threads and cleaning up our mess.
                          For once, you are not in this guilty party, FRex! Whoo-Hoo!! ) But thanks for your comments here.
                          Our Fishhouse
                          Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.

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                          • #14
                            Unfortunately there are alway those that will test the limits and the longer you put it off, the worse it gets. Hopefully everyone will be a little more polite for a while.
                            Thank you
                            'Dear Lord,' the minister began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look on his upturned face. 'Without you, we are but dust ...'
                            He would have continued but at that moment my very obedient daughter who was listening leaned over to me and asked quite audibly in her shrill little four-year old girl voice, 'Mom, what is butt dust?'

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                            • #15
                              singing "I'd like to buy the world a coke....."
                              5.5 fw fluval chi - class N top bar snake chested endlers/ red marble bn/ 4 stripe RCS/ pumpkin shrimp
                              20 sw cube - a few damsels and a colony of bristleworms
                              29 fw - self cloning crayfish..which can't seem to clone haha
                              29 fw - mollies / albino bristlenose / ghost shrimp and snowball shrimp/ glo danios
                              29 fw - crs/ amano/tiger shrimp /assassins/ whiptails/ plants/ 3 emerald cories
                              55 fw - steatocranus casaurius (20ish)/ tetras/ rainbows/large Jack Dempsey
                              75 fw - large Jack Dempseys / pictus cat/ yoyo loach/ Red gippicep
                              / 10+" oscar/ parrot

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