Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

[zormer23]

I just got a tank full of african cichlids ---  my first cichlids!  When I got them I moved the fish and the water to try to keep their stress levels down.  Turns out the nitrates are ~200 ppm, so I prepared some water last night (added AquaSafe conditioner and raised the temperature over night) ... and now I'm wondering if it's really OK to change this water into my tank.  Here's why I'm asking:

Tank currently has Ph of 6.6, KH of 40, GH of 350.  (Ammonia, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 200)
New water has Ph of 7.6, KH of 100, GH of 100.

Do I need to make the new water conditions match the old water first?  How?

If not, do I need to add the new water gradually to keep stress low on the first?  How slowly?

Any advice appreciated!  These are beautiful fish and I want to sure I treat them well .... will be posting pics soon!

Also, several of them seem to be "flashing" against the sand quite a bit ... I've read that this can be normal behavior, and not to worry too much unless I see obvious signs of ich (no spots yet) ... so this is my plan --- is this a good plan?

Rich

[CichlidFan]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Rich,

I can't say with any authority on the readings your asking about, all I can offer, is to take one of the cichlids and use him as a guinea pig and if he does fine after 12 hours or so....it's fairly safe to add the lot.  If my memory serves me correctly, most African cichlids are fairly sturdy fish, only a few species are really whimpy when it comes to water conditions.  

You can always try to find your own answers on the web too....

Good Luck

CF

[Zulaab]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Fish can generally easily handle going up on pH and since Africans are used to 7.6-8.0 I would increase my pH of the water for sure.
I would not worry about the flashing.  If its constant, it could be because the Nitrates are high.   A water replacement will take out a lot of the nitrates.

[Spot86t]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

I would add some baking soda to the existing tank to raise  the ph a bit, at least that would be one factor less to stress them.  

with regard to the other readings, I would do partial water changes until they were close enough to do a major w/c.  some salt might help to lower the hardness too.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Why is the tank water lower in pH? Have you noticed the new water dropping any? Is there anything in the tank lowering it?


I would say multiple smaller water changes would allow the fish to acclimate to the change better since it's not only pH but your hardness as well....have you made sure your test equipment is accurate? As for salt lowering hardness I thought it was the other way around? With the water parameters if you change about 50% of the old water you would only at best change the parameters about halfway between the two so it's not that drastic anymore.

With the flashing....if it happens multiple times a day then it is probably due to something not to their liking.... most drastic changes in water parameter will cause that...pH shock, Hardness shift, nitrogen spike, temp fluctations, disease.

[Mzungu]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

I agree with Spot, and good idea with the baking soda! I think numerous small water changes would be less stressful than one huge one. But, for sure, it will probably be less stressful for the fish, regardless of what you do, to have lower nitrates!

Congrats on your new acquisition, and we're waiting for those pics!

[Spot86t]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

As for salt lowering hardness I thought it was the other way around?

Since salt is the main catalyst in home water softeners....

[zormer23]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

OK, I'm going to go with 10% water changes daily until I reach some equilibrium ... then do a larger water change to get the nitrates back down ... and then I'll see if I need to raise Ph and KH at that time.  

As far as the old water goes ... I understand that as nitrates go up, Ph goes down if there's not adequate buffering (KH) because of the acidity of the urine ...  that's why I think the old water's ph is so low ...  http://www.malawimayhem.com/articles...hemistry.shtml

An other reason my ph might be low relative to the new water is that the old water is being oxygenated with airstones, while the new water is not.  I will move one of the airstones tonight and see what happens.


Thanks again for the help!

[zormer23]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

For those that are interested...I just checked my new water after about 12 hrs of aeration ... no change in its pH.  So I think that the lower pH of the old water is either due to its source (I moved the water with the fish when I bought them) or it's the high nitrate levels...

10% daily changes are in progress...pH is starting to come up a bit.  Thank goodness for my pH monitor ... the test tube kits are impossible for me to read once then get into the red.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that aerating your water raises the pH, not lowers it.  Aeration drives off the CO2, which increases the pH, right?

And Nitrification will lower the pH.  So, the high Nitrates must be the reason your pH is so low.  

What kind of cichlids do you have?  I do 50% water changes on all our tanks every other week, or 25%-30% if I decide I need to water change sooner than that.  None of our fish have any adverse reaction.  We have African, South American, Asian...you name it....:)

With your Nitrates that high, the fish are likely uncomfortable now...at the very least.

[edmlfc]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

With the nitrates that high smaller water changes need to be done on a daily basis. Zormer23 is doing the right thing. If you do a large water change the difference will shock the fish. I've seen this before. My cousin had purchased a home and with it came a fish tank. The nitrates were well over 200. They did a couple of large water changes about 50% and by the third water change all the fish had died. His ph was also around a 6.2. I would keep doing what you are doing..... 10% water change daily until you get it way down. Then you can start doing larger water changes. Just keep taking it slow and the fish should be fine. Good luck with your new fish and keep us posted on the outcome.

[edmlfc]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Hey zormer23, how are your fish doing? Have you got your nitrates down yet? Just curious.

[zormer23]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

Thanks for asking!

Yep, nitrates are now 150; pH is up to 7.1.  Fish are still flashing despite this plus ich treatment.  I did see some ich spots a few days ago on 1 fish, but I don't see any spots any longer.  

I should have nitrates down to under 75 in about a week.  I'll keep folks posted.  Expect pics over the weekend in another post.    8)

[edmlfc]

Re: Water Chemistry & Flashing Question

That's great news. Glad to hear everything is going ok.