need help - ich

[finfan]

well, just when i thought things were going good, i see ick

Background:
i got this lone green neon tetra (from fish ranch) few days ago because it looked so good among the cardinals (it was the only one in the tank/store), no fish in that tank had any ich that i could see, also, when i got him/her in my tank (did not QT - :() , s/he blended in with the cardinals very well and played around with them as if they have been together from the beginning, yesterday i noticed two white spots on her, no change in behavior, so i took her out of the tank (cathing her was NOT easy - but i won't get into that)

my tank readings as of the last two readings (done 9/5 and 9/10):

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ph - 7.8 or higher (which has been constant from the beginning)

last water change was a 25% change on 9/6

no other fish as of this morning has any spots on them, but i know from limited reading that ich is probably still there in the tank

tank inhabitants: 9 cardinals, 5 glowlights, 3 ottos, 2 nannacara anomala, 1 black neon

WHAT DO I DO NOW?
what should i do, i have been continuing my pimafix and melafix to make sure the fin rot on my three cardis go away for good, that thing did not spread to anyone after initial breakout (see my other thread), all the affected fish (3 cardis) are still around and seem to be doing well (except one has lost almost all of its fin on top)

so i am not sure what i should do to try to eliminate this ich thing - although it is invisible at this point

should i use my heater (which i never used because usually the tank temperature stays at 78degrees +/- 1degree)

maybe i can slowly turn it up to 82 and leave it at that for couple of weeks (by the way, does fish not get burnt on the heater when their bodies touch it?  the device gets so hot, i am scared to put it in the tank)

i have aquarium salt (never used in the tank either), i thought all my fish like soft water and salt would not be a good thing, should i add salt?

or should i get some API ich control meds since i have the other api products (pima/mela fix) in the tank, will there be a problem using all of these together?

PLEASE HELP

[djmatthewblack]

Re: need help - ich

Pimafix and melafix can kill off beneficial bacteria in the tank.  Also overdosing can be lethal so be sure you aren't using more than the recommended dose on the bottle.  Aquarium salt is good for killing bacteria:
[from aquariumfish.net]
"The pathogens, such as bacteria and protozoa, are simpler forms of life that have no internal organs to compensate for the change in salt concentration.
But fish have organs, such as kidneys, that enable them to adjust to a small change in the concentration of salt."

Using salt also strips the protective slime from the skin of your fish.  I recommend also using stress coat to restore the slime coat which will also prevent it from getting diseases.  Again, be careful on how much salt you put in as large doses can be lethal.

[Tiapan]

Re: need help - ich

interesting i heard the opposite about salt and slime coat. anyway there are lots of ways of treating ich, raising the temperature speeds up the life cycle so if you do that you had better have an ich treatment in the tank, if not you could end up killin everyone, i would leave it as is right now and see if anything pops up. Ich is a naturally occuring parasite that only becomes a problem when slime coat is reduced or when fish are stressed and their immune systems get a little under the weather. adding salt often kills ich, the normal dose for aquarium salt usually does the trick, also the treatments you get from stores work well too. one of my old favorites is quick cure, or coppersafe, but these will also kill any inverts you might have in the tank.  there is an organic ich teatment byt Kordon i think that i have known to be used even with fry in the tank to no ill effect on the fish, so thats an option too. just remmember whenever you treat a tank with anythin to remove carbon from the filter and then follow directions. so if you are gonna raise temp remmember to treat first, otherwise you could doom your fish

[finfan]

Re: need help - ich

what is a normal does of aquarium salt?  i never added any, is it like 2 or 3 teaspoons per 5 gallons?  

also, i thought since all my fish are soft/acid water preference fish, they would not like salt in the water


i guess i will refrain from heater for now and see what pans out!

[eklikewhoa]

Re: need help - ich

I do 1tbsp per 5gallons, the salt you want is sodium chloride which doesn't alter the pH or hardness.

Slowly increasing the heat of the tank to about 80-82 will speed up the life cycle of ich.

[Mzungu]

Re: need help - ich

You're right that they probably won't like salt, but they probably won't like any medications either.  :)  I'd go with the salt, though, if you do indeed start to see ich. After treatment, you can do water changes and just not add any salt.

So you've only seen symptoms on the green neon? (BTW - I've never seen any of those...I'm going to look them up after this post!) Where did you put her? Has she gotten any worse?

[finfan]

Re: need help - ich

so i guess in summary this is what i should do:

1) put 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallon

2) increase the temp gradually to 82 (or should i skip this and just add salt?)

well as of last night/this morning only seen it on the green neon, yes i have never seen them in person before her either, thats why i bought her - she just looked so cool, i put her in a 1.5 gal tank where i have a sick (pop-eye) dwarf platy from my old tank (that i never put in the new tank and probably never will), he has been with me for 2+ years now and has had the pop-eye for at least a year

she was sitting in the bottom this morning, she was in a lot of stress last night because i had to chase her for at least half hour before i could catch her - moved my bogwood around, moved my rock, she kept on hiding in the plants after i moved the wood and rock

i don't think i will bring her back to the tank (specially because she is sharing the same space as the pop-eye bandit), i should have just left her in my tank, but i panic'd a little last night and moved her out, she looked really good, now her future is doomed :(

i wish i could start another aquarium, but i can't now because of some constraints

[RussGB]

Re: need help - ich

I feel your pain!

You definitely need to do something. I too don't have the space for a QT tank.

I used Chem Marine FWP (and I use it every water change in smaller doses) and I added an 8w UV sterilizer inline with (and after) my canister filter. Normally this only runs 8 hours a day, but if I add new fish I change the timer to run 24 hours.

For me, many of the chemical cures don't work because I have shrimps in my community. Raising the temperature I have heard works well, but it is a lot of power to go from 77' to 82' on a 150g!

I wish you luck, and whatever happens don't get disheartened.

[szidlon]

Re: need help - ich

If you're really short on space for a QT tank, a bucket with a heater will work just as well, with an air supply of some sort, even better with a sponge filter if  possible.  Raising the temp will speed up the life cycle of the ich making it a little easier to get rid of more quickly.  Humm, I hope you know what I meant by that.

[djmatthewblack]

Re: need help - ich

interesting i heard the opposite about salt and slime coat.

Using salt is suppose to be good to remove the slime coat so meds can treat the infected area.  If the fish aren't infected yet then salt might make them more susceptible.  So that puts you between a rock and a hard place.

For a QT tank I bought a 1 gallon tank at Petsmart that came with a UGF filter and top with light.  I would recommend also getting a heater, but maybe only cause my roommate keeps the apartment at 60degrees.  But it was only $13 plus cost of optional heater.  Great for small fish if you don't have alot of space or funds.

[finfan]

Re: need help - ich

well the 1.5gal tank (a little acrylic hex with an undergravel filter that is mainly drawn by the airstone), i have has a airstone going (there is no gravel ) and i change the water almost completely once a week,

my pop-eye bandit is always ok no matter what, but i don't think she will last in a tank like that and i definitely don't want to bring her back to the main tank even if she looks healthy because i don't want to cross any pop-eye bandit stuff in my main tank

i can't wait till january - i plan on starting a good size community planted (hopefully 100 gallons) and convert my current 30gal. tall into a species only tank

at that time, i also plan on having a QT tank and a baby grow out tank

[finfan]

Re: need help - ich

i will wait a few days and see if there are any more white spots on any of my fish, if there is, i will do something, if not, i will stay put, for all i know, when i get back from work, all of my fish might have spots :(

[Mzungu]

Re: need help - ich

I hope not! We'll cross our fingers.

Your plan with the salt and heater sounds good, though, if they do come down with something.

[finfan]

Re: need help - ich

just so i am correct, a little confused now

1) increase temp to 82 gradually

2) add salt as i increase temp - do i add all salt (1 tablespoon for 5 gallons) at once or do that gradually as well (meaning half dose one day and half dose the next)?  or should i wait until after i have reached 82 degrees to add any salt?

3) add no other meds or anything else for treatment

4) does carbon in the filter deactivate salt as well?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: need help - ich

I would remove the carbon and if you have gravel be sure to gravel vac the tank.


Fish Ranch had lots of green neons not too long ago.