New planted tank... fish are dying.

[Zulaab]

Well I have run into a problem.    (when you are posting in the Diseases and Disasters section you usually have a problem)

I setup 3 weeks ago a planted tank for my room mates Son's 8th birthday.   I wanted to have it ready for fish by the time for his birthday came around.
I bought one pleco and placed him in there.. and overall it looks happy.   He wanted some glow fish and I then I bought some German Blue Rams for him thinking, well I know I am going to be the one for a while looking after the fish at least let me look at something I have been wanting to get for a while.

All the Rams decided within a day of arriving to sit on the bottom of the tank and breathe as fast as they can.

I checked Ammonia, NO2, NO3, pH, etc..  all didnt look normal, Ammonia 0, but a TON of NO2 and just a trace of NO3 in the tank.  Confused by the numbers I did last night a 40% water change and put in filtered rain water, knowing that the Rams prefer something a little softer and less pH than tap 8.4+

Still this morning another one died..  They are still sitting on the bottom, their color is not there... they look stressed...

I have not feed this guys for days, because the second day I had them I feed them and they completely ignored the food.

I know this is not a lot to go on but I am pulling my hair out.

I am thinking tonight I need to stop by City Pets and get a complete master water tester to get some more accurate numbers...  I am sick and tired of seeing fish die on me in this tank..

Can this be disease or you think there is a problem with water ?  Is there a medication I can add into the water to get them to look better ?
How about stress coat ?
I know these guys are stressed to the max..

Any suggestion please speak up :)

PS.. I have lost all of the glow fish in the last 3 days, and this morning 1 German Ram.

[txfront]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

How long did you aclimate them?  Is the temp too high for them?  Is there enough oxygen?  Is there enough filtration?

[Hanson77]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

What size tank....filtration....what is the pH?  I know you said that you were using filtered rain water for your water change but do you know what the pH was before the Rams were added?  Did you do anything to acclimate the rams before adding them straight to your tank???  Did you quarantine them for any length of time?  Are the Glofish still alive?

[Hanson77]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

Sorry....just saw the Glofish status at the end of the thread.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

Nitrites is your problem.....

Try and find a seeded filter pad or something from an established tank to help the bacteria colony. For the mean time......Amquel+plus or Prime along with some Aquarium/kosher salt will help(go for 1tbsp per 10g for now).

Uncycled tank along with delicate fish is a bad combo.

If you got the rams locally and they have had them for awhile they should be acclimated to our waters so go with tap water for now or if you are really worried go to the grocery store and buy some distilled or even Revers Osmosis  water.

[Zulaab]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

I have been shooting Amquel+plus into the aquarium now every other day, because I could not figure out why the water stats show so way off.  I am going to get a master testing kit so I can get some accurate readings tonight.

I will put some salt in the aquarium.  The Pleco that has been in the tank for the last 3 weeks seems to be the one who is handling things the best in the tank.. still active and eating.

The tank was new, ie they where the first fish in the tank therefore no quarantining them because I figure they are "all" in Quarantine right now.

The Rams where bought locally and have been acclimated (I hope to local Houston water).  We will see what happens over the weekend.

I have true aquarium salt at home for the tanks, but I didnt think about putting some into this tank because it was a planted tank.

Uncycled tank along with delicate fish is a bad combo.

I could not agree more, but it was more of a birthday thing and I needed something that I would care about (I am upset about the Ram dying this morning... the glowfish I could have cared less for)..

I hope something good happens soon because I am losing all of my hair.

:)  Keep smiling :)

[djmatthewblack]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

I agree with Ek, but I just wanted to comment that stress coat is good for removing chlorine and puts a protective slime on the body to prevent it from getting diseases or such things as body fungus (which knocked out a population of cobra guppies in my tank).  The kind of stress your fish are displaying is not the kind of thing I think stress coat would help.  

Get some bacteria in there to convert the nitrite into nitrate.  If you have the space you might want to put the rams and pleco in an established tank and perhaps put in some cheap guppies or something in instead.  That should get the nitrate cycle going and I know guppies are pretty good about staying alive in an unestablished tank.

[Mzungu]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

I think that, actually, your numbers are quite normal for a cycling tank. Good thing ammonia has disappeared! And the fact that you have a little nitrate is a good sign...the bacteria will start converting the nitrites to nitrates now.

I think that you're doing everything as you should be. Just continue to do water changes, especially because when your fish are breathing so rapidly and are so stressed out. Like ek said, if you have an established filter or media, add it to this tank to help boost the cycle. And keep testing for nitrites and nitrates, you should start to see a change really soon.

I wouldn't recommend moving the rams and pleco, though, for the small chance that there is something wrong with them OTHER than just being stressed from the cycle.

Good luck, and stop pulling your hair!!  

[Zulaab]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

I will let everyone know how things goes over the next few days.. now that we are going into the weekend and I can observe them a little more closely.

[txfront]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

even though they may be acclimated to Dallas water, that doesn't mean your water is identical to what they were in.  Any new fish that i get receives a 1-2 hour acclimation period where i am slowly introducing tank water into its bag water..  I haven't lost a fish due to illness or stress in about 5 years.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

Aquarium salts help with electrolytes or whatever it's called which helps the slime coat on the fish.

The best thing to do right now is to get some seeded filter material into the tank or if you have a spare filter on another tank put it on this one to help with the culture. I would rec. Bio-spira but it helps jump start the cycle by converting ammonia to nitrites so it might not be much of a help right now.

Don't feed the fish no more till the cycle is done or cut back drastically, they won't starve.

[kewlkatdady]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

I will put agread with EK....and second or third the recommodation for seeded filter media to help the cycle...

If you don't have any established filter media, maybe someone down there would volunteer to help you out with some...

[Anonapersona]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

You say this is a planted tank.... how are the plants looking? Do they get enough light? Are they growing well? Are they floating so they get some CO2?

Plants will consume ammonia and nitrates, but not nitrites. Adding salt will help the fish deal with the nitrite (not sure if Rams will tolerate salt) but the plants will not like the salt at all. I suggest Prime, as it works for nitrites as well as ammonia, where Amquell+ is only for ammonia I think.

Plants should have come from an established tank and should have carried bacteria on on all leaf surfaces. Seeding the tank is not really necessary therefore.

But, HEALTHY plants are good, DYING plants will decay -- giving off ammonia while not consuming it. And trashing your filter in the process -- so how nasty is the filter right now? Might need to gently clean it.

So, you need to get your plants healthy!

Plants need LIGHT -- more than anything.

Second -- they need CO2, a 10 gallon tank will do much better with a CO2 source (I have a spare Hagen system I can sell you if you are in the NW part of town -- IMO the Hagen is the savior of the 10 gallon planted tank)

Third -- once you have light and CO2, then look at fertilizers. Plants need more than nitrates (or ammonia) to run, they also need K and P. Not critical until the plants are growing well and if you see lots of roots emerging from the gravel you may be short on nutrients. (Roots from stem plants don't count, though, they always throw out roots)

So, look to your plants to help your filtration, but get the light going and then check on fertilizers. And, they are right, stop feeding so much, that pleco is a poop machine.

[guppymax]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

The advice is great.  I missed the part where you talk about your filter and  eklikewhoa is exactly right. Like Anonapersona I am concerned about dead plants and fish because the contribute to the nitrogen cycle problem and live plants should help. Remove the dead stuff ASAP. Overstocking the tank could be a problem but you have quit feeding. How big is this tank and how many of what kind of fish. Try to answer more of their questions.

max

[Zulaab]

Re: New planted tank... fish are dying.

8 Hours later - no fish have died.. some have gotten some colors back.  I am still wondering about adding salt to the aquarium.  Half (3) are still sitting on bottom while the rest (4) are hovering over the bottom.. They still breathe heavy, but maybe not has hard as before.  The filter material is what I had expected for the time, added tonight a carbon filter into the fray.

Originally Saturday I added after two weeks of plants and Pleco in the tank - 10 GlowFish & 6 German Blue Rams.
Today Friday Morning I am down to 1 Pleco, 5 German Rams (first one died overnight) and 1 Glowfish (they have steadily died 1 or 2 morning or evening, this whole week) - The only thing I am worried about is that if any of the fish came with some sort of sickness, but the thing is that all the fish went to the bottom within hours of arriving into the tank.

The Tank is a 20G tall.  The plants are for sure growing like wildfire, I am thinking I will in two weeks from now already have to cut some down.  Every plant has shown growth..    I noticed last night when I had to replant a few things because I removed a decoration, that most all of the plants now have a small to solid root system going (added another decoration which adds more air to the tank).  

Checked all the parameters this evening.
NO3 .5 (considered safe)
NO2 3.0 (this is considered stressful to the fish)
Ammonia between 0-.25 (very little)
pH has fallen to about 7.8 (was 8.4 before the introduction of filtered rainwater)
Hardness 75 (soft) (was 150+ before rainwater)

No Fish that died ever stayed in the aquarium more than about 8 hours (when dead over night or during the working day) they where removed immediately when noticed they no longer lived.

The Pleco seems still to have happy..  but then again he hides a lot during the day, so I could not tell you much about him/her.

I am not running CO2 in the aquarium.  For right now I don't want to add more complications to the tank if I can.   (Remember this is a tank a kid has in his room)

I have added on your advice an old filter pad into a spare HOB filter that I am running on the side now.  Hopefully this will start beating down the NO2.  

There is a ban on feeding the fish right now, until they start looking better and more up to moving around.. This morning when I had to fish out the dead fish there was a fish in the way and I figured it was going to move when the net came down.. It didnt care and didnt move.  I had to pick it up in my hand and move a few inches away so I could get the dead one out.

We will now see what happens overnight.  Tomorrow another water change is coming.  We will see if this brings the NO2 down some more.  (I hope).

How long should I wait to put some salt into the aquarium or is this advised against until I can see what adding the extra filter material into the aquarium will do ?

PS Txfront .. I am in Katy a westerly suburb to Houston, but thank you for your help and support :)