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  • Water chemistry fluctuations...?

    I recently moved to Houston and have never had any experience with using a city water suppy in my aquariums (always used well water.) I have been monitoring the water for about three months now and about two weeks ago, there was a huge spike in the pH that lasted until just recently. The pH is now back down around 7 but it had been up to 8! I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if this is a common occurence or just a fluke? What is the best way to condition city water? I am very hesitant to use chemical buffers in my aquarium.
    Bacteria: the only culture some people have

  • #2
    Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

    Perhaps I wasn't clear ... when I say I have been monitoring the water, I am refering to the tap water. No water changes were performed while the tap water pH was elevated.
    Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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    • #3
      Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

      Well, I'm sorry I can't help you on the info about the city water, I just moved back here a few months ago, so I can't really comment on trends yet...but, as to conditioners, I think you're right to be hesitant to use chemicals, especially if you're keeping fish that don't need anything too special with regards to parameters, etc. I think it really depends on what the well water was where you lived previously. I know you've probably mentioned it (sorry!) but where were you living? Was the water REALLY different from here? Also, do your fish react badly to a higher pH? If so, then you might need to work out a system. If not, I say acclimate them slowly to Houston water with only dechlorinator added (via water changes over time).
      I hope some of that made sense... :?
      "Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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      • #4
        Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

        Where did I move here from? I never know how to answer that question -- I work in the oil industry and I've moved a lot recently. But the last state my car was registered in was New York -- and also the location I refer to using well water at. The water was slightly hard and alkaline but it's properties were consistent. The thing that I'm not sure how to handle is the fluctuations in water chemistry here. I believe you are right in that a slow aclimation to the water conditions here would be ok for the fish but if the pH is going up and down from 7 to 8 (which is 10 times more basic) the fish are continually going to be aclimating to something new and I don't think any fish would do well in that situation. Like I said, perhaps this one occurence was just a fluke and my water will stay the same from now on ... Just wondering if anyone else has noticed pH changes in their tap water and how you handle it?
        Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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        • #5
          Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

          In my part of Houston the water stays pretty consistant around 7.56 to 7.8. If you are doing water changes of less than 40% daily, that should not be a problem. The real problem will depend on the amount of chlorimines or phosphates added. The chlorimines are much higher in warm weather, up to 7ppm, in the winter it is down to around 3ppm. This is an issue with the ammonia left over from most dechlor products, and in truth the ones that say they take care of ammonia, do not, they simply alter the form to make them less harmful to your fish. The ammonia is then processed by the filter, the problem there is with a high ph, if the filter is not really well cycled and large enough for your fish load, the ammonia can change form back to the deadly type and it can be a problem. Phosphates added to coat the pipes can also be an issue. It is getting harder and harder to keep water that is suitable for fish. I have gone to a canister that holds 50 lbs of zeolite to deal with the ammonia left behind by my carbon block filters, but have to control the flow rate to make it effective, it is fine with my autowater changes, but if I let full flow thru a 1/2" valve at city water pressure the flow rate is too high and does not remove all of the ammonia. If you are having ammonia problems, we have to go against all that we have learned over the years about water changes and keep them at 10 to 20% to protect our fish, definately below 30 % at a time.
          GIVE NONE, TAKE NONE - BE FREE, HAVE FUN

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          • #6
            Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

            You will find that the water companies in general use surface water from the sheldon resivoir,
            but some areas have wells that they fall back on as necessary.
            we have a lot of old pipes with problems, a lot of new developments and a bunch of construction where new pipe is connected to old pipe.
            all of which allow mud & bugs into the water.  The amount of mud or bugs varies due to temperature or current construction or local bayou flooding.
            The water company monitors the water quality and they add lime to help the mud settle out and chemicals to kill the bugs
            and if things get out of wack they add more of everything. ..  To protect us.
            You can ask your local water company for the water quality reports.  Some will even notify you of problems as they occour.
            But what works best is to purchase a container (food grade 55g drum) install a float valve (<$10 at any feed store) and keep a barrel of aged water for water changes.   Even better, test the water and treat it as necessary before you add it to your aquariums.
            Some of us have gone even further and added RO systems to remove the mud, chemicals and minerals before we put it in the aquariums or ice makers.  
            'Dear Lord,' the minister began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look on his upturned face. 'Without you, we are but dust ...'
            He would have continued but at that moment my very obedient daughter who was listening leaned over to me and asked quite audibly in her shrill little four-year old girl voice, 'Mom, what is butt dust?'

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            • #7
              Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

              Lime -- that would definately cause an increase in pH, eh? I called my water utility district and they are sending me the water quality report. The girl I spoke with acted like she had no idea what I was asking for but after being on hold for 15 minutes she must have found someone who knew something about water. And since you bring it up, lets talk about RO. Do you have a whole house or under sink unit or a unit that you use only for your aquarium water? How often does the membrane need replacing? After the RO unit has removed everything from the water, do you use additives to bring hardness up for hard water fishes?
              Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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              • #8
                Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                My ro unit is neither a whole house unit or an under the sink unit, it is one i had made for me by sparkling clear industries here in Houston. It does 600 gallons per day, comes on a stainless steel stand and has its own pump mounted on the stand. It has an input psi guage, a flow rate meter and an input to the membrane psi guage, it also has a loss of pressure switch that turns off the pump if you lose water input. I run the ro into a holding tank where i mix in back with filtered city water that has been thru a 10 micron sedimnet filter (20") and then thru two 5 micron carbon blocks (20" each) and then thru a final .5 micron final filter (20"), the remix is 3 parts ro and one part filtered city water. with the prefiltering my membrane lasts a long time, I test the water frequently and when I see the microsiemen level begin to rise I change the membrane. A new membrane is about $175, a reconstituted membrane is about $125. The unit itself only cost about $450, they have a unit tha does a 1000 gallons a day for around $700 and if you have a commercial size water line, they have a 2500 gallon a day unit.
                I do not believe in storing water for more than about 12 hours, if you allow water to age after chlorine has disipated, you run the risk of bacteria build up. a good quality ro unit will not really drop the ph that much, my tap water is about 7.56 and after I run the ro and do the remix it is around 7, I add muratic acid to take it down to the level I use, which is currently about 6.5.
                GIVE NONE, TAKE NONE - BE FREE, HAVE FUN

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                • #9
                  Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                  Yikes! I wouldn't know what to do with 600 gpd! I just have a dinky little 50 gal and another 5 gal... Obed --Very impressive. It sounds like you have a pretty sophistocated operation going. I would be really interested in seeing what your setup looks like (I'm kinda a nerd) Got any pictures?
                  Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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                  • #10
                    Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                    I was a instrument/electrical/control systems engineer so I have automated water treating plants and installed both RO & DI systems in comercial applications (food & drink) and I understand how they work.   In the past I have used a rain barrel to collect soft water for my rainforest fish.  However here in TexasCity I am surrounded by chemical plants w/ flair stacks (acid rain) and the city sprays for mosquetos which leaves an oil slick on outside containers of water.   So I have recently purchased a 5 stage RO/DI unit for my fish room.  It is rated 100 gpd.  And I got it on ebay for less than $100.  To make 100g of RO the system sends 200g of waste water to the drain.  So expect your water bill to increase.  Membranes are usually designed to last 6mo to 1 year.   The high quality ones can be cleaned by running the water backwards through them.  The inexpensive ones need to be replaced.  Some of the better units have a digital readout of hardness of the filtered  water to let you know when to service the unit.  
                    Some of the breeders I know add an asortment of things back to the RO water.  Some add part tap water to get the desired hardness and some use pure RO water to top of their tanks due to evaporation.   The trick is to decide what quality of water you want, test the quality of the water you have and make small adjustment until you have what you want.
                    I like to use mineral supliments because I believe it promotes faster growth and better health.
                    'Dear Lord,' the minister began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look on his upturned face. 'Without you, we are but dust ...'
                    He would have continued but at that moment my very obedient daughter who was listening leaned over to me and asked quite audibly in her shrill little four-year old girl voice, 'Mom, what is butt dust?'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                      Originally posted by clw219";p="
                      I recently moved to Houston and have never had any experience with using a city water suppy in my aquariums (always used well water.) I have been monitoring the water for about three months now and about two weeks ago, there was a huge spike in the pH that lasted until just recently. The pH is now back down around 7 but it had been up to 8! I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if this is a common occurence or just a fluke? What is the best way to condition city water? I am very hesitant to use chemical buffers in my aquarium.
                      According to Robert T. Ricketts, an author for TFH, The Puffer Forum and several others, fish can't read PH. They have no receptors for it. The "PH Shock" we've always been warned against is actually osmotic shock, not from ph but from differences in total dissolved solids causing problems with osmoregulation.
                      Phishfreek is right about our having surface-water supplies. My TDS and PH in Texas City are directly proportional to the amount of rainfall up north of us.

                      Mark
                      What are the facts? Again and again and again--what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore devine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell", avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history"--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your only clue.

                      Robert Anson Heinlein

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                      • #12
                        Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                        Osmotic pressure is directly related to ph, the lower the ph and the lower the tds is, the more osmotic pressure and the more transfer by osmosis takes place, one reason copper based meds are deadly in a tank set up with low ph, low tds water. It is accurately called osmotic pressure, but we still have to worry about it even if we do not call it ph shock.
                        One other thing to consider is that when the city switched from using their wells to going to almost total surface water, they started using chlorimines instead of just chlorine, more problems that ever for hobbiests.
                        GIVE NONE, TAKE NONE - BE FREE, HAVE FUN

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                        • #13
                          Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                          Ok, so you're saying that pH itself is not the true issue but rather an indicator of "hardness?" This is a very complex topic ... does anyone know of a book that specifically addresses the issue of aquarium water chemistry? If there isn't one already, someone should start writing one.
                          Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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                          • #14
                            Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?


                            the link above is on an angelfish forum, but gives a lot of really good water quality information
                            GIVE NONE, TAKE NONE - BE FREE, HAVE FUN

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                            • #15
                              Re: Water chemistry fluctuations...?

                              Whoa, I guess I should be more carefull what I wish for! Thanks for the info --  
                              Bacteria: the only culture some people have

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